Lobby: Up
Online: 64
Sync Range: 40
* FAQ    * Search
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:48 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:19 pm
Posts: 146
Aeroo wrote:

Dia III is also quite marginal in comparison to Dia II and is a nuisance spending way more mp and lasting 1/4 or 1/2 the time unless you really start blowing a lot of merits into it.


This is why I'm kind of torn about Dia III. I don't have room in my merits to get it higher than 2/5 (60s duration unresisted), so I almost feel like I should leave it at 1/5 and use it as window for spiking my party's damage from WS/SC and using Dia II for normal defense down stuff since it has a much longer base duration of 120s.


Aeroo wrote:
1 merit in para2 is also somewhat useless as it is not going to be really any stronger than para1 and the accuracy you get from 1/5 may actually make it even weaker, and again more mp.


I have 1/5 in Paralyze II and the only benefit I have noticed for sure is duration. At 1/5 on low level rarabs, the duration was always 3 full minutes. Paralyze on the other hand had a highly variable duration, sometimes less than one minute. But you are right about potency, I haven't noticed it being almost any stronger than Paralyze I in terms of proc rate.



Central wrote:
Having the rest of the spells at 1/5 is already an automatic upgrade in minimum effect and potency cap over the previous tiers. Yes, Slow II/Paralyze II/Blind II at 1/5 is stronger than just Slow/Paralyze/Blind.


This was my reasoning for wanting at least one merit in Paralyze II. That and I have a few points in group 2 Ice already which has synergy with Paralyze/Paralyze II. Then at that point, I was not going to have Slow II 5/5, so I figure more utility from getting Dia III would help. I'm just not sure if I should push Dia III again or not. I'm already not going to be the Slow II 5/5 red mage that people want for high level content. So I am almost wondering if there is any point of going to 3/5 at all when the next point in Dia III would a shit load more impact.

Idk. I might just flip a coin and be done with it.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:12 pm
Posts: 753
Central wrote:
I think we can all agree that when it comes to actual endgame content and non-endgame content, 5/5 in both Slow II and Paralyze II are the winners as it maximizes damage mitigation, especially when combined with Carnage Elegy. The effect and value of lowering attack speed is tremendous when a fight lasts longer than you'd want to and trivializes anything not immune to the combo.

Ignoring endgame and moving on to the actual topic at hand, I agree that it's up to you to experiment and see what you want and what your team needs, so it may be better to consult with them instead. I don't know the rest of your Group 2 allocations, but even I don't agree with the options you've presented, but for different reasons.

Just to give you an idea and explanation of how I planned mine: 1/5 in all and finishing with 5/5 in Phalanx II (I don't really care much for RDM to finish Phalanx II right now) because I like the efficiency of having all spells unlocked and the maximum support of Phalanx II.

At the highest Enhancing Magic RDM currently obtains (317), Phalanx and Phalanx II are pretty much equal (I don't know how the rounding works on this server, but it should be 28 if it doesn't and 29 if it rounds up, I'll need to finish Phalanx II to see which ends up being stronger in terms of potency, but I'm expecting both to be the same), with Phalanx II having 25% more uptime over Phalanx (3 minutes vs. 4 minutes), costing double the MP (21 vs. 42) and being able to target party members.

Having the rest of the spells at 1/5 is already an automatic upgrade in minimum effect and potency cap over the previous tiers. Yes, Slow II/Paralyze II/Blind II at 1/5 is stronger than just Slow/Paralyze/Blind. The only downside is the increased MP, recast times for some which is a minor inconvenience if you happen to get resisted, and lower duration on Dia III and Bio III (but you shouldn't always be casting these, only when you know you should).

It works really well for me when it comes to soloing and is very versatile in both small groups and bigger content. Perhaps it could work for you too.

If you're absolutely determined on choosing between your options, 2/5 in Dia III is probably the better choice, especially if you're casting it every time it wears off because of the low duration, it also compliments Merit parties extremely well, if the monster is still alive after 1 minute, you've already lost the chain. 1% more Slow isn't really that big of a deal, any Slow > no Slow.

The_Carrot wrote:
Pretty sure 3/5 into slow 2 will require less mind stacked to hit the cap, possibly freeing you up to run mp rings or something, but if your team likes that dia III double the length would probably serve them best.


If your Slow II 1/5 was slowing for 33%, your Slow II 2/5 would be slowing for 34%, you could drop a few MND for your Slow II 2/5 to be slowing at 33% again if you wanted, that's the only time altering dSTAT comes into play, otherwise the dMND required remains the same, putting more points just increases the potency and breaks the cap if you're at max dMND.

The_Carrot wrote:
burn/choke/shock -15? vit/int/mnd or dex/agi/str, coupling rasp/drown/frost


The cap is -13 at 150 INT.

It's not RDM related, but some of these spells have been functioning incorrectly since I started in January 2016.

Burn works correctly.
Frost used to lower MND, now it doesn't lower anything at all when he revamped BLU (Cold Wave), it should be lowering AGI.
Choke works correctly.
Rasp works correctly.
Shock lowers STR instead of MND.
Drown works correctly.

Great info, thanks for this^^

_________________
!!! Surprise !!!
~not a noob~


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:37 am
Posts: 350
There is no universally correct way to set up your red mage group II merits; it depends entirely on what you're going to be doing with your red mage.

For me personally I go bio 5/5, Dia III 1/5, slow II 4/5
Bio III @ 5/5: Bio is an incredible spell for soloing, as well as tanking/holding due to the attack down. It casts quickly. It is 100% accuracy and doesn't lose much potency from lack of a dark magic set, so it can still be landed while most of the inventory is geared towards tanking. I've also found most red mages merit other things, so I'm able to compliment their debuffing potential even as a tank. If you do a lot of tanking or soloing, do not overlook this option.

Dia III @ 1/5: There are two reasons I prefer 1/5, firstly it frees up an extra merit for slow II, and secondly it allows me to self-overwrite a dia 1 used to claim in order lower the duration to 30 seconds. This can come in handy vs wyrms, or anything that is DOT'd that you don't want to be DOT'd. Most merit mobs die within 30 seconds of it being casted regardless. In the event you're participating in a TP burn or zerg and want the longer duration, you can simply overwrite it with another dia III before it wears off (though this is not retail accurate behavior). It's also not a huge leap up from dia II in terms of potency, without proper refresh I struggle to land it on every single merit mob anyway for mp reasons and find myself downgrading to dia II in that circumstance.

Slow II @ 4/5: I personally like a lot of merits in slow II because I don't find myself needing blind, paralyze, or phalanx on a regular basis. I don't agree with the people saying 5/5 slow II is a must, in fact the thing I like most about slow II isn't the potency or the accuracy, but rather that it operates on a separate recast timer from slow I. For me, in many cases (even solo holding HNMs) if any form of slow is on, the situation is under control with shadows, stoneskin, and cures. In many cases the slow has a low accuracy so I'm casting some form of slow every time it is off cooldown and hoping it lands. In regards to the exact potency of the slow, more is obviously better, but the nitty gritty of how many merits you should have in there is being overblown in this thread imo.

Other spells and why you might want them:

Blind II: if you spend a lot of time with a ninja tank or a thief duo farming buddy, this spell could make loads of sense. Ninjas in full eva sets, bat earrings w/ blind potions etc. can actually get most HNMs missing on a regular basis. Anything you can give them on top of that helps.

Phalanx II: As mentioned in this thread, this will give you no personal benefit as even with 5/5 merits phalanx I still absorbs ever so slightly more damage. On the other hand, there are plenty of situations this might make sense. If you spend a lot of time as the tank party support rdm it's a no brainer. It really shines in salvage, if we ever get that. It's also quite good vs Ixion if that ever came into play. I don't personally use it as I'm usually the one doing the tanking, but I totally understand why you might want to.

Paralyze II: Because paralyze I has a much lower recast timer than slow I, this spell isn't nearly as tempting as slow II, which in most cases will receive at least one merit. For me, the decision to merit this would come down to a specific solo needing it (perhaps cactrot rapido) or finding myself regularly rolling with red mages who had all of the other bases covered at HNM, in which case I might go 5/5 on this just to max the alliance's overall debuff potential. I do find that many of the HNM I fight tend to be more resistant to paralyze than slow in general, with many being immune, but it's still not a throwaway spell if it fits what's missing in your alliance.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:23 am
Posts: 1139
Heres how beautiful para2 can be sometimes, including the 150+ mnd set to go with it.
Image
Sacrificing it for bio3 is fine imo. It's all preference. My general sentiment about the rdm group2 merits is that wherever you are putting them they should be pretty much stacked 5/5 if not 4/5. Having 1 point in all of them is worthless. The tip for rewriting a shorter dia so you can get a dia claimed mob slept faster definitely could potentially save the group but that is an extremely rare scenario. But for the purposes of a merit party if that's a big thing for you, 1 point in dia3 will definitely make your DDs like you more but as you said, mp is typically going to become an issue.

_________________
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:24 am
Posts: 157
Honestly, the only situations where Dia 3 is worth it over other options are TP burns that last long-ish, or tight dps races. Examples:

- Merit parties: As stated earlier, your MP won't be able to keep up. You don't need Dia 3 over Dia 2 to "race" to get a chain (if you do, there are more serious issues to discuss before g2 merits).
- Kirin: Legit scenario to have at least one RDM in your group/LS to have Dia 3 (ideally a couple of points to reduce the number of casts).
- Fafnir/Nidhogg: I don't think anyone's TP burning him nowadays, and it does not apply to you as per your previous comments, but in a TP burn meta this would be a must have for at least 1 RDM in your group.
- Khim/Cerb: Same as above. You often melee these, but not as a "race", more like a lowman style with SAM tanks etc., in which case a stronger Para2/Slow2 combo will always be preferred.
- JoJ, JoH, JoT: Arguably the best scenarios to have Dia 3 in the current state of the game. Easy mobs that live long enough (maybe not JoH, poor thing) and that could use additional defense down.
- Salvage & Einherjar: Particularly in the latter, Dia 3 is not only good but a must-have. We can perhaps re-discuss this in 2025 when they are implemented.

Back to your original question, if you're debating between an additional point in Dia 3 and an additional point in Slow 2, I'd go with Slow 2.

_________________
Kulgan/Seed
RichFatKids - rfklinkshell.com
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:41 am
Posts: 64
as someone who has 2 different rdm's and recently played with this, my final conclusion was to redo my 2nd rdm's merits to mirror my original setup of 4/5 para 5/5 slow 1 blind. I played around with 3/5 dia3 and 2/5 para. it was nice but by and large the benefit of having a faster kill never outweighed the benefit of strong para2. You will never lose an encounter because you didnt have dia3, but no para can be the make or break. again, this is all opinion.


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited