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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:51 pm 
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Its of little value and all but i feel i have to say this. as a player whom starded as a red mage it saddens me to a degree that my favorate job is considered as a "healer" role and not multi teired in any way. playing in partys with a few players, i've been tasked with simply healing only. now, i have no quilms with this but i do have to express that this job is best suited to buffs/debuffs and is best used as a sub to a white mage, not as a white mage replacement. an example would be as so, say theres a party of 6. lets say theres a warrior, a paladin, a black mage, 2 white mages and a red mage. lets say everyone's doing there job but the white mages runs out of mp. that would be the time to step up to heal party, other wise its better to do enfeebling and enhancing while whacking away with the tanks with the black mage nuking while the white mages recover to do they're job. my point here is to promote red mage as a "swiss army knife" as opposed to a single use tool. all i ask is that you consider your parties needs when you include a red mage and not simply rely on red mage for solely healing, because red mages healing is C+ at best. happy adventuring people of nas~


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:13 pm 
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Moon_fox wrote:
Its of little value and all but i feel i have to say this. as a player whom starded as a red mage it saddens me to a degree that my favorate job is considered as a "healer" role and not multi teired in any way. playing in partys with a few players, i've been tasked with simply healing only. now, i have no quilms with this but i do have to express that this job is best suited to buffs/debuffs and is best used as a sub to a white mage, not as a white mage replacement. an example would be as so, say theres a party of 6. lets say theres a warrior, a paladin, a black mage, 2 white mages and a red mage. lets say everyone's doing there job but the white mages runs out of mp. that would be the time to step up to heal party, other wise its better to do enfeebling and enhancing while whacking away with the tanks with the black mage nuking while the white mages recover to do they're job. my point here is to promote red mage as a "swiss army knife" as opposed to a single use tool. all i ask is that you consider your parties needs when you include a red mage and not simply rely on red mage for solely healing, because red mages healing is C+ at best. happy adventuring people of nas~



RDM offers a variety of uses in parties. It can tank, main heal (as you've seen), debuff, buff, kite, and serve as a minor DPS. It's role changes based off needs, similar to your "swiss army knife."

I would say unless there's a PL (a lot of XP parties come with PL's on Nas), you should get the mind set of main healing/backup healing when you get invites to XP parties. You say "RDM shouldn't serve as a WHM replacement", but it can fill the main heal roll quite well, especially 40+ once it gets access to convert and Refresh.

In most group oriented instances you won't and shouldn't be meleeing on RDM. How are you going to have mp to backup heal if you spent all your time "whacking away" at the enemy instead of resting? Pre-41 RDM's MP pool is NOT unlimited.

Also, RDM getting a C+ in healing doesn't really drag it down much as a main healer, if you're geared properly to do so.


And what Kubi said. That scenario you describe, if it's for XP purposes, wouldn't have enough damage to constitute you as a RDM just backup healing + meleeing/debuffing. You're role would most likely change to nuking in this instance, as two WHM's should have healing more than covered, especially with a PLD tank.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:16 pm 
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There are a limited number of humans on Nasomi. Demonstrate the value you provide, and people will understand your usefulness in the next party.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:44 pm 
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Mr.Wiggin wrote:
There are a limited number of humans on Nasomi. Demonstrate the value you provide, and people will understand your usefulness in the next party.
Mr.Wiggin wrote:
There are a limited number of humans on Nasomi. Demonstrate the value you provide, and people will understand your usefulness in the next party.


Agreed, Any job is what you make it. Put in the work to make your job useful in your preferred role and then prove it's use to others.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:07 pm 
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Kubisnaxx wrote:
There is no where near enough damage for that to work out. I wouldn't even invite a RDM to the party if there were 2 WHM in it already (theoretically)


I think this varies greatly with level range. Dunes, Qufim, even Bibiki rdm can go toe to toe with melee and come out on top if you play it properly.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:45 pm 
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Posts: 11
Deadwing wrote:
Kubisnaxx wrote:
There is no where near enough damage for that to work out. I wouldn't even invite a RDM to the party if there were 2 WHM in it already (theoretically)


I think this varies greatly with level range. Dunes, Qufim, even Bibiki rdm can go toe to toe with melee and come out on top if you play it properly.


This is true. I've personally hit on melee attacks just as hard, maybe even harder than some of the other melee dps in a few parties, as I was bored of nuking and we had a PL (shocker).I do think the chances of encountering a RDM with both level appropriate melee gear and mage gear is a little on the low side, though.

As you've said, this does very greatly. During my few months on Nas I feel like most of the time you get a party as RDM people are either A. Inviting you to their manaburn because there are no BLM's looking, or B. Looking for a healer. People don't generally invite RDM's for their melee expertise.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:09 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:19 pm
Posts: 25
Quote:
This is true. I've personally hit on melee attacks just as hard, maybe even harder than some of the other melee dps in a few parties, as I was bored of nuking and we had a PL (shocker).I do think the chances of encountering a RDM with both level appropriate melee gear and mage gear is a little on the low side, though.


i do my best to keep my gear up to date as i lvl (as jobs usally can use the same gear across the board for the most part). i was with a 4 man party and i had little trouble switching between healing dps and pulling with a bow so im quite sure that if you know what your doing you can proficently be more than a support mage... i started this post to promote this ideal. im always testing this job (i never played before now and im learning this rapidly.) so it aggitates me when someone tells me my role is only to support another mage. WHY GIVE ME A SWORD AND EXPECT ME TO NOT USE THE DAMN THING? Id also like to point out that i have seen red mages solo bosses that partys have issues with so theres no excuse for the calms that red mage doesnt cut it damage wise.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:16 am 
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Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 4:34 am
Posts: 127
Frankly, if I'm looking to invite a rdm for anything besides filling out a DD slot in a lowbie pt, I can't see any viable reason to let them use sword. Melee'ing would just get in the way of the things I actually want them to do. If I want a dispeller, I'm certainly not going to want them smacking for trash damage and making it use more TP moves that need dispelling, especially on a server where mobs always WS at 100%. If I want a debuffer/haster/refresher, I may as well ditch any WHM, tell the rdm to put the sword and board in the trash and heal. If I want a nuker, I'd probably try to wait for a BLM, but if forced, I'd tell the rdm to just get a club/staff, since rdm's native skill and lack of MAB trait here sucks.

Red Mage sword skill is pretty bad, lower than WHM's club skill in fact, and you should thank the private server gods that RDM can use vorpal blade here, because in era it didn't get it without certain subs.

Melee mage DD just doesn't work that well in an exp environment when your elemental magic skill is a full letter grade lower than DRK's(!), your highest weapon skill is the same grade as warrior's Staff, your melee DD gear choices aren't amazing, and you have, at least on nasomi, no native traits boosting either. Enspells aren't going to save you from that.

You can do what you want, but don't surprised when your party members groan and chortle in ls chat when they first hear your sword unsheathe.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:54 pm 
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Mr.Wiggin wrote:
There are a limited number of humans on Nasomi. Demonstrate the value you provide, and people will understand your usefulness in the next party.

I don't even play Red Mage, but I thought I would take a moment to comment on this. I get this exact response on my Corsair all of the time. People are shocked that not only do I use my gun, but that Corsair damage is comparable to Ranger if you're actually doing what you should be doing. I guess they're used to people playing WHM/COR while leveling who never shoot their gun and basically just stand in melee range with a sword and buff.

I mean I can certainly see the job being a lot cheaper that way, but what's the point of playing a job if you're not going to do it as hard as you can? Seems like a waste, and I think people respect it when you put forth proper effort. I've received a lot of compliments because other people set the bar pretty low.

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New to Nasomi and have a question? PM me, I'd be glad to help!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:19 pm
Posts: 25
Gweivyth wrote:
Mr.Wiggin wrote:
There are a limited number of humans on Nasomi. Demonstrate the value you provide, and people will understand your usefulness in the next party.


Quote:
I mean I can certainly see the job being a lot cheaper that way, but what's the point of playing a job if you're not going to do it as hard as you can? Seems like a waste, and I think people respect it when you put forth proper effort. I've received a lot of compliments because other people set the bar pretty low.

finally, some support for belief!


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