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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:17 am 
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Just started playing again and I would love to get some tips on how to best play RDM in exp pt (prior to 41 and post 41)

What is the usual routine like in exp pt? what enfeebles you must land? and how do you deal with resisted enfeebles? what about nukes? also Dia vs. Bio? Gear? etc

Edit: Also thoughts on subjob blm/whm/smn?


Any help is appreciated!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:09 pm 
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drxq wrote:
Just started playing again and I would love to get some tips on how to best play RDM in exp pt (prior to 41 and post 41)

What is the usual routine like in exp pt? what enfeebles you must land? and how do you deal with resisted enfeebles? what about nukes? also Dia vs. Bio? Gear? etc

Edit: Also thoughts on subjob blm/whm/smn?


Any help is appreciated!


Whole lotta questions.

1) One huge role in parties is Haste and Refresh cycles, depending on how many melee and/or mages are in your group. You can weave an enfeeble or 2 in between Haste cooldown timers.

2) Normally it's always Dia/Dia2 in xp parties, although no one will care if you toss a Bio before mobs dies to try and get a Dark Magic skillup. Slow Paralyze and Blind are all nice to cast, if your mp is allowing it (sometimes the group is killing so fast for chains that you cannot get off more than Dia). Keep in mind that depending on Mob family and their innate resistances, you might not land let's say Slow on an Earth based mob, or Blind on a Dark based. In practice this means Slow might be hard against Crawlers, Blind might not land on Bats.

3) I lvl'd 75 twice, retail and Nasomi, as WHM subjob. This is because most RDMs are invited to be main healer, especially after a certain lvl. You can definitely try lvl'ing as /blm if you like, I am sure many pt's will want the refresh at all costs and will also have PL's to help heal.

4) Nuking isn't done as often while lvling, altho you will for sure at endgame. Feel free to try a nuke if your PT has a Skillchain set up.

5) Resisted enfeebles. Cast tons of enfeebles and always stay capped. Buy MND and INT gear in every slot possible, and make equipsets to swap them with their associated spell. Consider eating food like Fruit Parfait, really helps.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:25 pm 
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Thank you very much Knarlfist for your help!

I have few other situational questions that I couldn't find an answer for in older guides (mostly it is based on experience)

Sorry for the many questions, I also hope other new Rdms found thee useful as well

Haste
1) what sort of prioritization you have in mind for haste for yourself and other melees? how about haste on tank?

2) Is it normal to do 6 hastes (you and 5 other melees) along with refreshing yourself + say pld? or do you have a limit to the top x DD and tank + yourself?

3) Do you always haste yourself? are there situations where you don't?

4) How about hasting jobs like blu and/or other mages like smn and blm ?

Refresh

5) How about refreshing jobs like Blu, drk and pld?


Enf:

6) what sort prioritization you have for para/blind/slow if the pt is killing too fast that you can only do dia + one of them?

7) I don't see poison mentioned, is it not potent to worth using?

8) Finally, how about enfeebles like Burn, Choke, Shock, Drown, Frost, Rasp with /blm ? not used?

That is all for me!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:13 pm 
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Posts: 176
drxq wrote:
Thank you very much Knarlfist for your help!

I have few other situational questions that I couldn't find an answer for in older guides (mostly it is based on experience)

Sorry for the many questions, I also hope other new Rdms found thee useful as well

Haste
1) what sort of prioritization you have in mind for haste for yourself and other melees? how about haste on tank?

2) Is it normal to do 6 hastes (you and 5 other melees) along with refreshing yourself + say pld? or do you have a limit to the top x DD and tank + yourself?

3) Do you always haste yourself? are there situations where you don't?

4) How about hasting jobs like blu and/or other mages like smn and blm ?

Refresh

5) How about refreshing jobs like Blu, drk and pld?


Enf:

6) what sort prioritization you have for para/blind/slow if the pt is killing too fast that you can only do dia + one of them?

7) I don't see poison mentioned, is it not potent to worth using?

8) Finally, how about enfeebles like Burn, Choke, Shock, Drown, Frost, Rasp with /blm ? not used?

That is all for me!


Keep in mind many of these answers are 100% playstyle dependent, mostly because of my race choice (Hume retail, Mithra Nasomi). You WILL have Taru-envy, if you are not a Taru, it's just a fact that they have tons of natural INT (some would argue most imporant spells are governed by INT, including Bind Gravity and Sleep. Spells you sometimes have to land or bad news bears) and also MP for days and a perfect Convert ratio.

I mention all that because my lower MP situation means I may not be able to haste every single melee in a pt, or I might have to cut some enfeebles to make it to next Convert timer. You are gonna have to learn this ebb and flow the hard way, thru practice and routine. I also often don't haste myself for the same reasons, even though it would lower your recast timers on the 2 cycles... oh well, I could always race change I guess!! ;-)

1) Always Refresh yourself 1st, and then go down the pt list in order for anyone with mp. If you are gonna Haste yourself, do the same thing, start with yourself. This will help create a good habit, that will aid you in chaotic disasters... if you notice Refresh off yourself, simply cast it on you and then start the list as normal, and you will have it up on everyone 90+% of the time. Haste on tank is mandatory (PLD or NIN both), after that hasting melees is optimal but if you have to cut for mp reasons, then do what you gotta do to make it to Convert timer.

2) BLMs have always been targets for resting to get MP recovery, been so since retail and that's why they have so much Clear Mind. If you have to cut them from refreshes for MP reasons, or only Refresh a DRK if they at half MP, then do what you gotta do. Never cut Haste off your tanks tho, that's a good recipe for disaster. In a perfect world, you can pt with a BRD or SMN, and get Hastega and/or March which will greatly cut down your duties and allow you to enfeeble Mob to the max. Also if you pt with a WHM, split the hastes with them.

3) I normally don't. There will be occasions in endgame where you must absolutely, like if you are the sleeper in lowman Dynamis, but by that time you will realize those situations for yourself and won't need our advice =p

4) Situational based on your MP and how fast you spend it. If things are smooth and you find extra time, do so for sure. If you just can't get your MP to last til Convert, let the SMNs and BLMs take advantage of Clear Mind and rest until it's time to nuke.

5) Same as above, in a perfect world let's say you have NIN SAM SAM BRD BLU RDM with 2 PL's curing the pt. For sure I would haste NIN and the SAMs if poss, and then Refresh the BLU so he can use his mp to increase dmg. If the pt situation isn't so optimal, start out doing it all and make cuts as needed.... just make sure you inform the PT that you are doing so, don't want a misunderstanding and them blaming you. Merely tell them that the comp isn't optimal, and you can't make it to Convert timer and are doing your best.

6) This might be Mob situational, and I'll give you a perfect example. At lvl65, Mire pt's are very popular. Mobs die fast, and most groups attain very high chains in this spot. Normally most RDMs would just cast Dia2, but I tried my hardest to toss in a Paralyze as well, because it lands good and hits hard on Lamia Idolators, and just one proc can save me a huge heal and therefore a ton of MP that would be used on said cure. In a normal pt that is killing at average speed, I would def recommend casting all of Dia2, Slow, Para, and Blind. Weave 1 or 2 in between each Haste.... start pre-pull Refresh yourself, Haste tank, mob coming in cast Dia2, Refresh a mage, cast Slow, Haste 2nd melee, cast Paralyze, etc etc. You will get the flow in time, RDMs are ALWAYS casting.

7) Poison 2 especially can be nice, it's just the case though that often PT's will xp on a mob family that it doesn't seem to land on, and/or there is no time to cast it with kill speed or your MP use doesn't allow fitting it in. Fine to drop it if needed, most mobs die too fast to get all of it's benefit anyways.

8) I don't do the BLM enfeebles. Normally I am /whm and don't have access. If you have BLM in pt, definitely let them cast those enfeebles even if you happen to be /blm.

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Last edited by Knarlfist on Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:30 pm 
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One more thing, realized I wasn't super clear about one of your questions: Enfeeble priority.

Dia/Dia2 is always first. Slow is next if you are fighting a mob family it will land on, because this enfeeb is super important for making your tank's job doable. Then I would prioritize Paralyze, and Blind next. I can definitely see some RDM's having an argument for Blind being more important than Paralyze, because it also helps your tank manage his Utsu Shadows consumption, but in my experience Blind can be hard to land on xp mobs, and it also generates a ton of hate on Nasomi. Be aware of that, and don't be surprised if the mob instantly rips off tank and rushes to you after a Blind cast. It happens... a lot.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:50 pm 
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Knarlfist wrote:
One more thing, realized I wasn't super clear about one of your questions: Enfeeble priority.

Dia/Dia2 is always first. Slow is next if you are fighting a mob family it will land on, because this enfeeb is super important for making your tank's job doable. Then I would prioritize Paralyze, and Blind next. I can definitely see some RDM's having an argument for Blind being more important than Paralyze, because it also helps your tank manage his Utsu Shadows consumption, but in my experience Blind can be hard to land on xp mobs, and it also generates a ton of hate on Nasomi. Be aware of that, and don't be surprised if the mob instantly rips off tank and rushes to you after a Blind cast. It happens... a lot.


Knarlfist wrote:
One more thing, realized I wasn't super clear about one of your questions: Enfeeble priority.

Dia/Dia2 is always first. Slow is next if you are fighting a mob family it will land on, because this enfeeb is super important for making your tank's job doable. Then I would prioritize Paralyze, and Blind next. I can definitely see some RDM's having an argument for Blind being more important than Paralyze, because it also helps your tank manage his Utsu Shadows consumption, but in my experience Blind can be hard to land on xp mobs, and it also generates a ton of hate on Nasomi. Be aware of that, and don't be surprised if the mob instantly rips off tank and rushes to you after a Blind cast. It happens... a lot.


I think it depends entirely on if people have shadows and if they are good at not taking damage/sharing hate. Before people get Utsusemi, damage prevention is a top priority through enfeebles. I think the amount of damage you add with Dia doesn't make up for the MP loss you are going to suffer having to cure people. Then, even when your team gets shadows, enfeebles will prevent your DPS from having to cast Utsusemi as often which increases their personal DPS. Dia 1/2/3 is for when your party is good and you barely have to cure anyway or you have too many mages and MP won't be an issue.

Since para has a low MP cost and a long cast time, I always cast it first when the mob is running to the camp. It will finish casting right around the time your players engage the target, so you get the most bang for your MP that way. Most mobs don't live long enough for you to justify para, slow and dia AND give you enough time to cure throughout the fight. So I would say that you should pick two out of para/slow/dia in most circumstances. Slow will be stronger if you have a BRD pulling with elegy (since they stack) or if the mobs are living a long time (slow duration is far more reliable than paralyze duration).


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:28 am 
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Enfeebs on xp mobs is moot. If you need to cast anything other than dia, you need to get better dds (tank incl). Its not a high bar to tp burn mobs to death (proper nq tp and ws gear with food is a thing). If you need to save mp, just cast dia1 instead of 2.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:29 am 
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Cilarnen wrote:
Enfeebs on xp mobs is moot. If you need to cast anything other than dia, you need to get better dds (tank incl). Its not a high bar to tp burn mobs to death (proper nq tp and ws gear with food is a thing). If you need to save mp, just cast dia1 instead of 2.


If that were true, we would only need healers for AoEs and haste. Unfortunately the bar you are setting is of greater competence than the average DPS. I had a merit party just the other day where every dps was /NIN and I was out of MP with 5 minutes still to go on my convert timer 15 minutes in. It was a sad ass merit party to be fair, but it isn't too far from the norm. In fact its why so many parties bring a PL.

In any case, if the person who is in charge of healing the party is also in charge of debuffing, they should be mitigating damage or increasing DPS in the most MP efficient way possible which in almost every circumstances involves at least one enfeebling spell. This is especially true pre-75 when parties are often a hodgepodge of party members, rarely with a BRD, maybe even with DPS that aren't /NIN.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:35 am 
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OperationFail wrote:
Cilarnen wrote:
Enfeebs on xp mobs is moot. If you need to cast anything other than dia, you need to get better dds (tank incl). Its not a high bar to tp burn mobs to death (proper nq tp and ws gear with food is a thing). If you need to save mp, just cast dia1 instead of 2.


If that were true, we would only need healers for AoEs and haste. Unfortunately the bar you are setting is of greater competence than the average DPS. I had a merit party just the other day where every dps was /NIN and I was out of MP with 5 minutes still to go on my convert timer 15 minutes in. It was a sad ass merit party to be fair, but it isn't too far from the norm. In fact its why so many parties bring a PL.

In any case, if the person who is in charge of healing the party is also in charge of debuffing, they should be mitigating damage or increasing DPS in the most MP efficient way possible which in almost every circumstances involves at least one enfeebling spell. This is especially true pre-75 when parties are often a hodgepodge of party members, rarely with a BRD, maybe even with DPS that aren't /NIN.


Or people can just suck less. People seriously accept this as the norm. A dd needs to use nq acc gear in tp, ws in some str if one hit ws, engage the mob when it comes to camp and ws at 100tp. If a dd cant do this, you will get more xp kicking them and fighting t-vt with less people, which is what were all about right? Being efficient with what you got.

Edits for autocorrect spelling

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Last edited by Cilarnen on Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:36 am 
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Accidental double post

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Making gil starting out!
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