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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Nabutso wrote:
Salmon Sushi was giving absurd amounts of R.Acc. But that's been fixed.

Nas typically avoids punishing people for that sort of thing. It's not worth it.


That's a good thing at least. It's sometimes hard to separate what's a "Nasomi thing" and an exploit.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:33 pm 
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louiscool22 wrote:
BST main so ready your pitchforks:

> Yes, familiar stacking is complete and utter bullshit. Can't argue.
> Carrie + BA merits.... eh.. make other pets work then? Otherwise its a nerf for nerfs sake instead of a bandaid to other currently nonfunctional parts of the game.
> Charming TOAU mobs? Product of the server. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE a working TOAU and gladly give up the /easy/ ZNMs (it's actually slightly hard and expensive to get 120 chr for a 1/10 chance at charming a mob that can 2 shot you..)

Misc other nitpicking issues: Happy for fixes if that means other non-working functions would function...

In all, I don't particularly FEEL powerful, which is a bummer since it looks like my job will get even fewer invites to things after this hammer lands.

But this entire thread reeks of hypocritical tears from other jobs who all also have their own non-era broken aspects that they won't admit. Like how many rangers/cors/thfs have been abusing Salmon Sushi all this time? Lets ban them too!


I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is practically zero. If you look at AH history, there's like 5-10 people that bought it very consistently. Most people didn't realize that bug existed.

Also - again, you can pretend everyone is crying all you want, if that makes you feel better. Other things being broken doesn't justifying leaving known broken things broken.

However, if you've got some more.. Toss them on out. I vote they all get fixed. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:27 pm 
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Nabutso wrote:
Never ever ever would anyone argue that a job should only be nerfed and not fixed to retail standards instead. Except for that one guy angry about RNGs.


Yeah, I get that and I don't disagree. I'll try to clarify my point from back where I mentioned other broken things about BST on nas.

With the full list of things that are significantly different on nas BST vs retail BST being demonstrably huge, I'm curious what the consensus is about what needs to be fixed? Specifically to the people who complain about BST, what is it that could be fixed that would satisfy you?

Because we've got a list of at least a dozen - and likely as many as two dozen - bugs, errors, or discrepancies here which are major deviations in gameplay. Will fixing Familiar stacking be satisfactory? If not, what else do you think should be done?

I joined nasomi to play BST again and discovered that it was a vastly different experience from retail, but I accepted all of that since it's Nas's project and he gets to do what he wants. Some of the differences are beneficial to people who play BST, and some of them are detrimental.

Basically, I don't want to see a couple vocal people who complain about a rarely used exploit end up effecting a change in the job while issues that affect those of us who play it go unaddressed. Familiar stacking and BA merits are just the tip of the iceberg as far as problems go, but the difference is that only BST players deal with the other, less visible stuff.

If BST is going to be changed, I think it deserves a more holistic approach than just changing something exploited by a fraction of players at endgame level.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:32 pm 
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No one here will influence what nas does to BST to fix it, you don't have to worry about that. Sure he reads the forums, but he isn't sitting here getting convinced one way or the other as people cry for nerfs. BST is just totally borked and needs a complete overhaul, like other jobs have gotten in the past like BLU or SMN.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:28 pm 
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Insofar as a post bringing to light numerous issues with BST that seem to be news to many people, I think that it is proven how people can potentially influence Nas since I believe this thread is going to be a precipitating factor in upcoming job adjustments. I don't know if Nas was unaware of any of these points which have been raised, and I don't know where this ranks on his priority list, but I would imagine this additional attention has some impact on his assessment.

But the thrust of my last post was directed towards the people who have cried foul. I'm curious what form of update will satisfy them about BST being OP once said update rolls out.

My secondary point was that if the end result of this brouhaha is simply that BST gets an update for an obscure exploit, but no other attention, it will be disappointing because there are other aspects which deserve to be addressed.

If this does result in sweeping changes and updates, as you anticipate, Nab, I won't be surprised. I just hope it's ultimately all for the good since this entire discussion seems to me to have been about obscure mechanics that benefit a mostly solitary job when it's at max level. And in the face of the sizable and daunting laundry list of job issues for BST, they're just a fraction of what could be fixed. To me, tackling this issue seems like a morass which would eat up a lot of Nas's time without a significant amount of improvement for much of the playerbase. So I'm pretty curious to see what he makes of it all.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:16 pm 
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excalibur light dmg op need nerf this is not retail


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:25 pm 
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Wolffhardt wrote:
louiscool22 wrote:
Like how many rangers/cors/thfs have been abusing Salmon Sushi all this time? Lets ban them too!


I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is practically zero. If you look at AH history, there's like 5-10 people that bought it very consistently. Most people didn't realize that bug existed.

Also - again, you can pretend everyone is crying all you want, if that makes you feel better. Other things being broken doesn't justifying leaving known broken things broken.

However, if you've got some more.. Toss them on out. I vote they all get fixed. :)


It was widespread enough that I knew about it and I only play BST, and then it was the target of an adjustment.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:17 am 
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louiscool22 wrote:
Wolffhardt wrote:
louiscool22 wrote:
Like how many rangers/cors/thfs have been abusing Salmon Sushi all this time? Lets ban them too!


I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is practically zero. If you look at AH history, there's like 5-10 people that bought it very consistently. Most people didn't realize that bug existed.

Also - again, you can pretend everyone is crying all you want, if that makes you feel better. Other things being broken doesn't justifying leaving known broken things broken.

However, if you've got some more.. Toss them on out. I vote they all get fixed. :)


It was widespread enough that I knew about it and I only play BST, and then it was the target of an adjustment.


If a RNG or THF are using that food, even while it was bugged, they're dumb as hell.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:59 am 
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Kazen wrote:
louiscool22 wrote:
Wolffhardt wrote:

I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is practically zero. If you look at AH history, there's like 5-10 people that bought it very consistently. Most people didn't realize that bug existed.

Also - again, you can pretend everyone is crying all you want, if that makes you feel better. Other things being broken doesn't justifying leaving known broken things broken.

However, if you've got some more.. Toss them on out. I vote they all get fixed. :)


It was widespread enough that I knew about it and I only play BST, and then it was the target of an adjustment.


If a RNG or THF are using that food, even while it was bugged, they're dumb as hell.


Agreed. I just leveled up ranger and am nearly done. I would never have given up the ranged attack from pot-au-feu for some extra acc from sushi. Rng don't have racc issues in the slightest with good gear and the already solid racc you get from the pot that also provides damage.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:29 am 
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lolBST wrote:
Nabutso wrote:
Never ever ever would anyone argue that a job should only be nerfed and not fixed to retail standards instead. Except for that one guy angry about RNGs.


Yeah, I get that and I don't disagree. I'll try to clarify my point from back where I mentioned other broken things about BST on nas.

With the full list of things that are significantly different on nas BST vs retail BST being demonstrably huge, I'm curious what the consensus is about what needs to be fixed? Specifically to the people who complain about BST, what is it that could be fixed that would satisfy you?

Because we've got a list of at least a dozen - and likely as many as two dozen - bugs, errors, or discrepancies here which are major deviations in gameplay. Will fixing Familiar stacking be satisfactory? If not, what else do you think should be done?

I joined nasomi to play BST again and discovered that it was a vastly different experience from retail, but I accepted all of that since it's Nas's project and he gets to do what he wants. Some of the differences are beneficial to people who play BST, and some of them are detrimental.

Basically, I don't want to see a couple vocal people who complain about a rarely used exploit end up effecting a change in the job while issues that affect those of us who play it go unaddressed. Familiar stacking and BA merits are just the tip of the iceberg as far as problems go, but the difference is that only BST players deal with the other, less visible stuff.

If BST is going to be changed, I think it deserves a more holistic approach than just changing something exploited by a fraction of players at endgame level.


Nerf Beast Affinity and Familiar stacking and I'll be happy. Probably remove Dawn Mulsums too, but those don't bother me as much. Leave being able to charm level 99 mobs in ToAU and using familiar, as it was/is common practice for Bsts to charm IT++ monsters and familiar them with the intention of using them to kill NMs anyway. At least until ToAU is fixed and the level 99 mob restriction currently in place is reverted.

However, I don't understand your logic for the bolded. Familiar stacking should be removed regardless and an easy fix(at least in my mind) would be to just give jug pets a time limit as they had on retail. I don't see why anyone except for exploiters of this would have an issue with this fix, so why do you seem to? Yes the other broken aspects of the job still deserve to be functioning. No, I don't believe leaving the more OP parts of the job as is deserve to stay in the game until those changes come about.

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