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Summoner and where it currently stands.
https://na.nasomi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=4165		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Mikara [ Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Summoner and where it currently stands.
After getting Summoner to 75 and getting a few select pieces of gear, I took it upon myself to do a bit of testing to see how everything currently works and/or interacts with everything. This will be an overview of certain things I noticed not working, or working improperly compared to how it functioned in retail during the relative period. I ask that if I leave anything out, please contact me either in this thread or in game so that I can test it further.

Gear
Current pieces of Summoner gear that do not function the way that it should:

Evoker's Pigaches: Currently provides no evasion boost to the avatars. (+1 version as well.)
Evoker's Spat's +1 Currently provides no accuracy boost to the avatars. (Hopefully my LS mate tested this correctly.)
Karura hachigane: Currently provides no attack or defense boost to Garuda.
Summoner Horn: Currently does not work.

Will add more items to this list, or issues with gear as they are brought to my attention.

Avatars
Bloodpacts that either do no function, or do not work the way they are supposed to.

Diabolos:
Camisado: Provides no knockback.
Somnolence: I have yet to have this ability do more than 0 damage even on a level 1 enemy, it also doesn't add Weight to the target either.
Nightmare: Not working, can't even be performed.
Ultimate Terror: Not working, can't even be performed.

Fenrir:
Lunar Roar: Only shows if exactly two effects have been dispelled from it's target, if only one effect is dispelled, it will not show a chatlog message.

Ramuh:
Chaotic Strike: Stun effect is not random based on the avatar's accuracy and only lasts for an extremely short time.

Shiva:
Sleepga: This ability acts very odd, for starters. Sometimes only hitting one enemy (possible height differences coming into play). When similar monster families (as your current engaged target) wake from sleep, they will not instantly link like they would normally, instead they will act as though they have given up a chase and sit idle for a few seconds.

Carbuncle
Healing Ruby: You cannot target other party members with this ability.

Titan:
Mountain Buster: Does not apply bind to it's target.
Rock Buster: Does not apply bind to it's target.
Rock Throw: Doesn't display when the slow effect wears off.
Megalith Throw: Assuming it doesn't apply slow, though it's hard to tell. (Also assuming if it does apply slow, it will not display when slow has worn off.)

As you can see, this is an expansive list of abilities that do not function the way that they should. I will continue to do testing and see what other oddities I can find.

Other notes:
Bloodpact wards generate absolutely 0 aggro for the avatar.
Increasing your avatar's attack stat does not increase your avatars damage. (Tested with Ifrit's Crimson Roar, while it did increase his attack, it did NOT cause him to do any extra damage. I tested this by allowing him to auto attack before, during, and after Warcry and comparing the numbers. All damage fell in range as though he had not received the +50 attack from Warcry, though /checkparam had indeed given him the stat boost.)
Spirits are completely busted. (Known issue)
Avatar magic accuracy is stupidly low. (Known issue)
Avatar physical accuracy with bloodpacts wildly fluctuates for seemingly no reason. (Known issue)
Summoning magic skill does not increase the duration of buffs / increase avatar accuracy for bloodpacts. (Known issue)
Physical Bloodpacts cannot be used to perform Skill chains. (Known Issue)
Magical Bloodpacts can magic burst, but does not display as a magic burst in chat log. Damage is correctly affected.

In conclusion, Summoner really needs quite a few fixes. Most of our abilities consume a giant chunk of our MP for subpar returns. Diabolos is nearly completely useless and has no reason to ever be considered outside of giving your Blackmages a slight boost to MAB when you get closer to midnight. The only gear that increases your avatars damage either doesn't work, or is completely questionable as to if you should even bother using it. Honestly the only things the job has going well for it in my opinion is the fact we can Carby pull, and we still have half decent buffs for the entire party.

Remedies that would at least help this job be something more than an okay-ish support:
Fix summoning magic skill to work properly.
Fix Summoner Gear.
Allow Physical Bloodpacts to be used for skill chain purposes.
Give Summoner Elemental Siphon.
Fix all bloodpact accuracy issues.


With all that said, please let me know if I missed anything, or if you know something about the job that needs to be addressed. Thanks for your time, and thanks for reading.
Author:  Baldr [ Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Summoner and where it currently stands.
While SMN could certainly use some work, it remains in an enviable position relative to a lot of other jobs. It is arguably the most sought after DD in endgame presently, with virtually no other job capable of comparable output.

This was a PW earlier today:

Image
Image
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Author:  Mikara [ Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Summoner and where it currently stands.
Can you also post pictures of their low damages to compare? Yes I know Summoner can produce high numbers, however it doesn't make up for the wild swings in bloodpact accuracy.
Author:  Baldr [ Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Summoner and where it currently stands.
Lowest numbers were in the 500's, around what the BLMs were averaging without ES. I'm not saying SMN is perfect, or even halfway. I'm saying that it is a job which still has a spot in an ideal alliance setup under current conditions. A position which a larger proportion of jobs do not have.

And it should be noted that numbers above 1000 are vastly more common than numbers below. It doesn't take a lot of buffing and food to move the BPs in the right direction.
Author:  Nabutso [ Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Summoner and where it currently stands.
I see the "2 effects have been removed" thing with Lunar Roar when I use it

Para on Thunderspark works too
Author:  Mikara [ Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Summoner and where it currently stands.
Nabutso wrote:
I see the "2 effects have been removed" thing with Lunar Roar when I use it

Para on Thunderspark works too


I'll test both again. Maybe it has to remove 2 effects to display properly? I only used it after a beetle used evasion boost.
Confirmed: The issue is that it needs to remove 2 buffs.
https://imgur.com/a/qCQYU
Edit: Confirmed on Thunderspark and removed from the list.

Baldr wrote:
Lowest numbers were in the 500's, around what the BLMs were averaging without ES. I'm not saying SMN is perfect, or even halfway. I'm saying that it is a job which still has a spot in an ideal alliance setup under current conditions. A position which a larger proportion of jobs do not have.


Thief is a job which still has a spot in an ideal alliance setup under current conditions. All of their abilities are working as should be expected. Why should another job be subjected to "Eh, it's good enough"?
Author:  Mikara [ Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Summoner and where it currently stands.
Viktoriya wrote:
Summoner horn doesn't work at all atm. Also worth to note, Avatars can magic burst, the combat log just didn't say magicburst but the damage increase does happen.


Will add this to the list.
Author:  Baldr [ Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Summoner and where it currently stands.
Mikara wrote:
Baldr wrote:
Lowest numbers were in the 500's, around what the BLMs were averaging without ES. I'm not saying SMN is perfect, or even halfway. I'm saying that it is a job which still has a spot in an ideal alliance setup under current conditions. A position which a larger proportion of jobs do not have.


Thief is a job which still has a spot in an ideal alliance setup under current conditions. All of their abilities are working as should be expected. Why should another job be subjected to "Eh, it's good enough"?


I'm not saying SMN doesn't need work, it definitely does. What I'm suggesting is that SMN is far from this:

Mikara wrote:
In conclusion, Summoner really isn't in that great of a spot.


When it is one of the most objectively strong jobs on the server.
Author:  Kazen [ Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Summoner and where it currently stands.
Mikara wrote:
Thief is a job which still has a spot in an ideal alliance setup under current conditions. All of their abilities are working as should be expected. Why should another job be subjected to "Eh, it's good enough"?


The only time THF is useful in alliance is last 10% to tag TH or if you have a Mandau.
Author:  Mikara [ Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Summoner and where it currently stands.
Kazen wrote:
Mikara wrote:
Thief is a job which still has a spot in an ideal alliance setup under current conditions. All of their abilities are working as should be expected. Why should another job be subjected to "Eh, it's good enough"?


The only time THF is useful in alliance is last 10% to tag TH or if you have a Mandau.


If you don't have anything to add, please go find another thread to derail.
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