ZweiHerzen wrote:
This isn't a reply to anyone individually specifically, cause i'm not gonna do that anymore here.
Yes, I partied after the revamp. It was awful. A previously working setup went to garbage in The Boyahda Tree, and the tree isn't even as tough as Zhayolm or Caedarva. That particular party also had one of the aforementioned shit-talking self-proclaimed 75PLD's, the RDM specifically. I didn't really do PLD/NIN til Caedarva/Bibiki cause nothing usually hit consistently hard enough to warrant it, pre-CureNerf anyway. Crawlers doing incinerate for 350~500 damage was only occasional, otherwise the rest of their attacks could be tanked with consistent heals. But after doing the camps and getting closer and closer to 75, I was realizing -- "hey, I think i'm tired of being duped into dying and losing progress, and that I'd like to get 75 already" -- so I dropped /WAR and picked up /NIN like everyone else, and had some of the smoothest parties I'd had yet, prior to the nerf anyway. I had a lot of complainers in the parties wondering what use I was if I wasn't tanking with /WAR, and I expressed it the same right back at them. What indeed is the point of paladin. Even as /WAR, the aggro distribution isn't much better. I could voke and flash right off the THF pulling the mob in, and someone will do their TP move as the mob makes it's way to me, and then it's just gone like I hadn't used them at all. I mean, I know what paladin can do, but it seems there is a contradiction in pretty much all the information about paladin on the internet in claiming that it is a tank to spoil everyone else's assumption -- when it really isn't, cause that's not how enmity works in this game. Enmity is mostly by big damage or big heals, and paladin doesn't do either of these things well. Short of idle provoke/flash, Paladin only has it's long-ass cooldown abilities to gain hate. They don't have enough natural DEX to land hits consistently, and there isn't much benefit to using greatsword instead of sword given they'd lose shield bash, and there'd be no benefit to gearswapping shield bash in cause the control of hate from one moment to the next is on TP moves. Paladin can't tank hits unless it's got hate, and short of using the PLD 2-hour, whatever aggro PLD can get for themselves in a party is fleeting, temporary, situational, and usually not an available option cause it's on cooldown. But PLD doesn't really have anything specifically good about it in terms of defensive options other than the Shield Mastery job trait, or relic gear post-75. PLD gets hit just as hard by incinerate as any other frontline melee member. PLD gets hit just as hard by Spinal Cleave as any other frontline melee member. PLD gets hit just as hard, the only difference being they could cure themselves (and probably take another hit during the process of casting). A PLD with no breathing room can die just about as easily as any other frontline melee holding aggro. This got me all to thinkin' that the real way the late-game is meant to be played is not with any single tank role, because playing it like that is just undue stress and a high chance of killing a party member, be they PLD or otherwise. The real way is for DD to control hate through TP moves, having the mob trade hate among them, and giving them all a fair and healthy amount of time to keep their shadows up when one doesn't have aggro. PLD can help a little by flashing, but again if ain't a flash from idle, there's isn't much chance the flash itself is going to pull hate - but it can temporarily blind the mob so whoever is aggro'd can get their shadows up. Any other DD/NIN there instead of the PLD would be able to actually deal effective damage and get hate with a TP move though, and that just gets back to how useless PLD is, and how much more useless it is now thanks to the cure nerf.
None of what I complained was mere guessing or assuming, or lies as a shitposter may claim. It's all just logical steps and personal play experience. Not even being able to clear 200HP on a Cure3 anymore is some sad, sad stuff. The parties went slower, alright. More people end up in yellow-hp with the mages chiming "oom" quicker. Jobs that get hate but can't deal with hate well are dying faster, like RNG. More time waiting for weakened. More time bitching about why they didn't get healed. More time to take breaks to regen mp. All these minutes are gonna add up real fast over the course of a day, a week, a month, a year. It took a lot from me to learn this game and get adjusted to it's slow pace and acquire some due patience, but now it's just asking too much. I really don't have the time, which is something coming from someone who'd been playin' here 8 hours a day. To those who play less frequently, all I can say is <Good Luck!>. Even the average highest death rate on the Online Status page had gone from 8 to 11. I'd hate to be anyone insisting the game didn't become more of a drag by the cure nerf, only as just some vain attempt at trolling or convincing their own self of something.
But "era" is "era", and I ought to realize that this change to cures won't be undone, even despite being aware of how negatively it has affected everyone playing here, and likely more than it has just myself who'd only been playing for 2 months, when the cures were good for years and years. But those 2 months are also why I can walk away from a bad change, cause I don't have years and years of investment. Maybe I had hoped Nasomi would post something regarding the cure revamp, but I will take that hope away, and with it - any further posts.
Be a big man, and don't reply with argument. You wont get the attention anymore from me, anyway.
Endgame is slightly different because (if your DD aren't Special Ed) they'll give you a minute to generate threat before going ham. But Paladin still does just fine in spite of the cure nerf. In fact, it almost felt easier probably because cures were pulling more threat than they should've.
If you've already pieced together that turtling up, subbing warrior, and face tanking is a lost cause, congratulations. But all this patch did was make that about %15 more ineffective than it already was. The playerbase doesn't seem to have learned what (most) mid to high level paladins alrea cay know - we need more than 30 seconds to build hate if we're going to tank something full time. That isn't happening in an XP party where the mob dies in 30 seconds or less.
A good party consists of 4 DD/NIN, a buffer, and a healer. A great party is 3 heavy DD/NIN, 2 buffers, and a healer. A tank (NIN included) is not a factor, after level 50 the party's tank is the damage dealer that weaponskilled last and/or hardest. The sooner the playerbase at large realizes this, the sooner paladins can equip DD gear and be less a drag on XP when they're invited.That is why most of my parties as Paladin I leveled with a greatsword wearing DD gear unless I was specifically asked to do otherwise by the party leader.
Shield bash isn't gonna make or break a party. Equipping a great sword and DD gear so you can deal some* damage while not being a hole in the party the healer dumps MP into can make all the difference in the world. Subbing warrior and face tanking, even when done successfully, is still less efficient than any other party format with or without a Paladin. That's how it was before the patch, and now it's maybe %15 less efficient.
I know people play Paladin because they want to sword & board, sub warrior, and face tank everything, even XP parties. Not because they want to be a less effective ghetto DRK with a greatsword and flash instead of stun. I was disappointed too. But if you fight against the game's mechanics you're going to lose. Every. Single. Time.
Like another poster said, incoming damage is turned way high here. That's why turtling up is fruitless compared to retail, and subbing warrior is just not an option here like it was there. Warrior with Monk dubbed should be a perfectly viable tank up to at least level 50. You want a good laugh, try that out sometime. It's no big secret that the game as it sits right now is more poorly tuned than retail in regard to being a straight up oldschool meat shield.
People aren't getting bent out of shape over it because we've already come to grips with the fact that WAR/MNK will never be a thing here and PLD/WAR sucks more than it did in TOAU era. We don't know when or if Nasomi plans to tone down incoming damage to make it retail appropriate. Complaining about it isn't going to get us anywhere. All we can do is work with what we're given, even if it frustrates the hell out of us.
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