Nasomi Community FFXI Server :: Mad Respect for (good) Thieves

Although thieves do good spike damage, they do less overall damage than equally geared monks and 2h dd (except maybe at the very very lowest gear levels). This is compounded by thief spike damage often generating significant overkill.
Thieves require the rest of the party to maintain specific positioning to maintain their subpar damage, while other dd impose no such added requirement on the rest of the party.
Although often used as pullers, they have little pulling advantage over other dd. Corsairs and bards are significantly better pullers due to their ability to sleep the mobs and their role as a buffer, which is not compromised by pulling (unlike a thief's damage).
There are often more thieves seeking in a given level range than other dd. Even when this is not true, there is no issue having two samurai in the same party, but there is an issuing having multiple thieves.

Author:	Rubicund [ Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Mad Respect for (good) Thieves
Hi Nas Community, I remember leveling WAR and DRG to 75 and LS members talking about how hard it was to find a party as a THF compared to other DD jobs. I assume, based on a gut feeling and no evidence since I never player THF, that it is because of the spike damage, SATA positioning and the fact that there were probably WAR, SAM, DRG, DRK seeking as well (i.e. competition). I was selfishly thankful that I had selected DRG since I never had issues finding an xp party or merit party. I now did something I thought I'd never do and decided to level THF, primarily for TH and I want to pull end game. I remember owning mobs in Carpenter's Landing with SA/Fast Blade. DW Mithran Scimitars at Lv. 28 was nice. I was responsible for pulling the next mob when the current mob was at 15% HP, using Acid Bolts to reduce mob's DEF, position SA and time SA, etc... which is more work than let's say a DRK swinging and using the occasional WS. I now have SATA/VB and keep Marksmanship capped. Thieves have a lot of roles in the party and are more active. So tell me, when does this fun roller coaster end? I love having a THF in the party, always. Why do THF have a harder time getting invites? Is this a myth? Like the subject states, I have mad respect for THFs who spend a lot on bolts, pull non-stop and tend to memorize the zone and mentally remember the 5 minute spawn timers to keep the xp flowing. <3 THF.

Author:	HarleyM [ Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mad Respect for (good) Thieves
Although thieves do good spike damage, they do less overall damage than equally geared monks and 2h dd (except maybe at the very very lowest gear levels). This is compounded by thief spike damage often generating significant overkill. Thieves require the rest of the party to maintain specific positioning to maintain their subpar damage, while other dd impose no such added requirement on the rest of the party. Although often used as pullers, they have little pulling advantage over other dd. Corsairs and bards are significantly better pullers due to their ability to sleep the mobs and their role as a buffer, which is not compromised by pulling (unlike a thief's damage). There are often more thieves seeking in a given level range than other dd. Even when this is not true, there is no issue having two samurai in the same party, but there is an issuing having multiple thieves.

Author:	Rubicund [ Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mad Respect for (good) Thieves
HarleyM wrote: Although thieves do good spike damage, they do less overall damage than equally geared monks and 2h dd (except maybe at the very very lowest gear levels). This is compounded by thief spike damage often generating significant overkill. Thieves require the rest of the party to maintain specific positioning to maintain their subpar damage, while other dd impose no such added requirement on the rest of the party. Although often used as pullers, they have little pulling advantage over other dd. Corsairs and bards are significantly better pullers due to their ability to sleep the mobs and their role as a buffer, which is not compromised by pulling (unlike a thief's damage). There are often more thieves seeking in a given level range than other dd. Even when this is not true, there is no issue having two samurai in the same party, but there is an issuing having multiple thieves. Excellent points. 1. "Although thieves do good spike damage, they do less overall damage than equally geared monks and 2h dd (except maybe at the very very lowest gear levels). This is compounded by thief spike damage often generating significant overkill." I was hoping that this was not the case in fast killing parties. I'll get the best weapons and food, and see if there is a noticeable difference. Perhaps manually parse a fights to see. COR and BRD are the least of the jobs seeking based on my experience. SAM is always my first choice. AB: - Defense is weakened by 12.5% for 1 minute. - This effect is a Defense Down effect, so it will overwrite Defense Boost, and will stack with Dia effects.

Author:	The_Carrot [ Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mad Respect for (good) Thieves
30-60 is a big chore for thfs, 60+ a thf can tag team with a pld or nin to keep partys going smooth on emnity, whille adding a little dps. Not being able to sleep links themselves gets them passed up a bit, they can hide every 5min to drop links but then you "X" out that mob til it repops. When there's no brd or cor, is where a thf shines. Best way to keep parties on thf is to carry the button and invite ppl yourself. Getting invites from pugs is rare, and usually substandard like "you're going to sata the rng ok?" and such....

Author:	Naimah [ Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mad Respect for (good) Thieves
Rubicund wrote: which is more work than let's say a DRK swinging and using the occasional WS. You just described WAR... have some respect for DRKs!

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Author:	Trayeldor [ Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mad Respect for (good) Thieves
I recently leveled thf to 75 and i honestly didn't have any issues getting a party till 70+. There was a slow day here and there, but it was relatively easy. for me. good luck, man. Dagger merits help thf out so much too. getting those good WSes early is nice!

Author:	Nazgul [ Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mad Respect for (good) Thieves
Back in my day leveling Thf was much different. No restriction on level sync, SA worked with Gust Slash (it was super OP doing 500-700+ in the late 20's), ranged attacks were super buffed and I fulltimed a crossbow for DD against worms (which is one of the reasons worms were able to move around freely in late 2014 and on), at any given time there was about 0 people seeking for XP parties. All parties were made by myself, often only having 4 people in them, 2 of them being me. XP bands always active getting 700xp for a chain 6 in Chasm. Leveling Thf sucks now I would imagine. The job is ok from 15+ for awhile but for the reasons stated above they will generally always be less efficient than any other halfway competent DD. If I was making a pt they would be one of my last choices. Beyond their limitations they have as a class themselves and the limitations they put on the party a good portion of Thfs are just terrible. I have very sparingly used Thf in merit parties and it's been pretty strong against birds and hasn't slowed any of my parties down at all. I imagine the fly camp would still be pretty good for a Thf as well but even at 75 it just seems easier and a lot less hassle not having a Thf at all.

Author:	kurozuka [ Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mad Respect for (good) Thieves
Nazgul wrote: Beyond their limitations they have as a class themselves and the limitations they put on the party a good portion of Thfs are just terrible. . Pretty much this , most thfs are garbage tier (gear and skill wise) , and with the recent ranged accuracy changes (NERFS) any good thfs are now mediocre at best.

Author:	Arcidias [ Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mad Respect for (good) Thieves
Aside from the points posted here, the z-axis breaking SATA means that any camps on hills or near small ledges will murder your SA/TA damage mods like half the time. Then there's potato positioning from other people, which means until 60 and Assassin, TA/WS isn't as chunky to just stick on the tank. Plus, Nasomi is super stuck on meta, so anything that isn't meta is frowned upon.

Author:	Mildew [ Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mad Respect for (good) Thieves
Has anyone tried a "thfburn" setup? RDM, BRD, 4xTHF/NIN. Seems like the highest evasion job in the game with lower dps, high spike damage, several enmity control abilities, and access to shadows would be able to bounce hate around and, as a team, produce constant spike damage with a SATA rotation. I imagine a group of decent to good thieves being able to wreck shit consistently. Edit: ... or even BRD/WHM, 5xTHF/NIN if they knew what they were doing...

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