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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:12 pm
Posts: 18
From what I am reading this is an exploit. According to nasomi rules and policies

Other Improper Actions
• Trying to impersonate other players by using their handle names or other means of communication.
• Circumventing any intended game mechanics.
• Ignoring instructions from Game Masters.
• Impersonating a Game Master or an official representative of Square Enix.
• Any act that compromises the Nasomi service, or attempts to affect said service.
• Names found to be in poor taste will be changed at a GM's descression.


Nasomi needs to fix this exploit and have the mob or NM disengage when someone who has claim goes through the teleporters, similar to someone warping out of a zone or teleporting from a mob that is engaged on them. The fact that it stays engaged in this zone would be an exploit in my opinion. I can see that Hyogotwood and the others from "Not Recruiting" (exploiting the space in the LS name also) LS have been exploiting this all of July 2020 just based on their Auction House sales on Nasomi Auction House.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:22 pm 
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Posts: 64
WeGe wrote:
Virlym wrote:
Abusing teleporters to confuse monster pathing was also used on retail fyi - including for pinning. Peoples abused the fuck out of it for Nyzul ZMNs and Abyssea NMs, amongst other things, and SE never did anything about it.

Also, I'm not sure where you got the idea that NMs despawned on retail? Some of them could lose aggro and walk back to their spawn location if you kited them for an extended period of time without doing anything, but straight up despawning was never a thing - outside of weather related NMs of course - even for force spawns. NMs would just always walk back (Marchelute wrecking havoc infront of the Selbina zone, anyone?), and so did regular mobs before the MPK patch.


Never said that ignore him, he didn't quote me correct the first time. it was in reference to mobs in our conversation, same thing with the friends comment where i said something along the lines as we were laughing at him because we knew he was lying not as a anecdote to my claims . if anything he scrambled things i said together and added quotation marks.


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also to be clear, i wasnt providing an opinion piece on if this is right or wrong. I was stating how this relates to current rules and how I've interpreted them, and based on previous actions taken by nas. You asked if what you posted in a video was against the rules, and i stated based on everything ive seen on this server, no. As for mire no idea what youre even talking about but clearly you still upset.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:00 pm
Posts: 49
parz wrote:
WeGe wrote:
Virlym wrote:
Abusing teleporters to confuse monster pathing was also used on retail fyi - including for pinning. Peoples abused the fuck out of it for Nyzul ZMNs and Abyssea NMs, amongst other things, and SE never did anything about it.

Also, I'm not sure where you got the idea that NMs despawned on retail? Some of them could lose aggro and walk back to their spawn location if you kited them for an extended period of time without doing anything, but straight up despawning was never a thing - outside of weather related NMs of course - even for force spawns. NMs would just always walk back (Marchelute wrecking havoc infront of the Selbina zone, anyone?), and so did regular mobs before the MPK patch.


Never said that ignore him, he didn't quote me correct the first time. it was in reference to mobs in our conversation, same thing with the friends comment where i said something along the lines as we were laughing at him because we knew he was lying not as a anecdote to my claims . if anything he scrambled things i said together and added quotation marks.


Image

also to be clear, i wasnt providing an opinion piece on if this is right or wrong. I was stating how this relates to current rules and how I've interpreted them, and based on previous actions taken by nas. You asked if what you posted in a video was against the rules, and i stated based on everything ive seen on this server, no. As for mire no idea what youre even talking about but clearly you still upset.
None of what you say is reasonable, because no matter how you look at it they are breaking rules here to exploit the map otherwise not available to them through "intended play" so how do you figure that to be not exploitative? You dismissed it frankly because you didn't care. you didn't care they were clipping through the world to hold a mob in fact multiple times you dismissed it as them fleeing from the NM. no offense but by far you had nothing valuable to bring to the conversation. it was a case close shut case. Thats fine but you're opinion means less if thats how you want to go about it.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:51 pm 
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I feel like you guys are arguing about something other than the topic at hand. The general sentiment of the issue on this thread is that an nm that should need to be tanked or kited skillfully and within the rules of what we all understand is supposed to be possible. If one group is ready to claim, and an individual who is incapable of holding it themselves uses broken mechanics of the server to hold it until his friends arrive, then the competition aspect is dead. It doesn't matter if it's only Boroka. It would be completely unacceptable and being raved about if it were a nidhogg, kb, aspi, tiamat, etc. The goal of the server is to have the competitive feel of classic xi. Quit distorting the argument. Its about keeping the game competitive. If too many aspects of that are broken down, there will be nothing left to play here for.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:41 am
Posts: 64
Aeroo wrote:
I feel like you guys are arguing about something other than the topic at hand.


you are 10010% correct. this has clearly become the search for an argument and nothing to do with actual clarity on the rules.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:00 pm
Posts: 49
Aeroo wrote:
I feel like you guys are arguing about something other than the topic at hand. The general sentiment of the issue on this thread is that an nm that should need to be tanked or kited skillfully and within the rules of what we all understand is supposed to be possible. If one group is ready to claim, and an individual who is incapable of holding it themselves uses broken mechanics of the server to hold it until his friends arrive, then the competition aspect is dead. It doesn't matter if it's only Boroka. It would be completely unacceptable and being raved about if it were a nidhogg, kb, aspi, tiamat, etc. The goal of the server is to have the competitive feel of classic xi. Quit distorting the argument. Its about keeping the game competitive. If too many aspects of that are broken down, there will be nothing left to play here for.


Yep, no complaint here.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:09 pm 
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Posts: 350
The first time I ever heard the term "pinning" was in a blog by Kaeko in regards to how he was able to hold Jailer of Temperance by positioning himself across the room and moving slightly left and right to confuse the NM's pathing. Even though the NM moves substantially faster than the player, it can be held in that manner for an extended period of time, with some skill. https://kanican.livejournal.com/10864.html

Pinning on Nasomi has come to mean something different than in retail because the draw-in, teleporter deaggro, and general path-finding all do not work as well as retail. The line between abusing a teleporter and just using the tactics available at your disposal is a grey area. For me personally, I would argue that anything the draw-in and teleporter mechanics let me get away with, is fair game. Basically I would say it doesn't become "pinning" until you don't have to do anything, and the monster still can't get to you. If you're having to do something, be it taking teleporters, or just moving slightly left and right to glitch the pathing, now there is retail precedent for your tactics. That's just my opinion though, and if you do it you're gambling Nas sees things the same way.

I don't know that the comparison to an HNM really holds up, as the HNM all have countermeasures in place to handle this contingency, even in places retail initially didn't. If sea ever gets a navmesh and you're wondering if you can pin AV, my advice is: don't try it.

Seems to me like the ball is in nas's court to add some deaggro on teleporter use in riverne site.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:18 pm 
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I used teleporters on retail to kite NMs all the time. Not sure what you think here is not retail like, WeGe.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:48 pm 
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Posts: 336
It's used quite often for inside jailer stuff

It'd be sweet to not wait 90 minutes for exsoldier to pin dot ixdrg to death i guess

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:40 am
Posts: 36
Cause on retail a monster would go white and lose aggro. Only times I remember a teleport glitch was znms and abyssea. And even then it was bannable if you got caught. Doesn't matter if you wanna try to derail this conversation. This is cheating, abusing teleporters is not a mechanic. Also his original defense of him not damaging the monster makes it not an exploit is completely wrong, an exploit by definition is "to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage" The advantage being killing the NM hence why you did it. Also he knows its wrong by even bringing up the damage comment and trying to deflect.


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