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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:29 am
Posts: 23
Demonknightx wrote:

But I can say with 100% certainty that desynth mats listed on the AH are not worth the gil at the moment.

TL;DR - desynth isn't worth the time unless cost of mats decrease by 30-50% (imo) and/or you supply own crystals and mats


cthalupa wrote:
Cool, so if were just talking about desynthesis then we can pack it up and call it a day because it's now retail accurate

thread over let's all go home now


Almost as if I made my point already about desynth in it's current state.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:38 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:57 pm
Posts: 775
Demonknightx wrote:
Starbright wrote:

Pretending fishing and the pick market are comparable isn’t wit and sarcasm, it’s outright stupidity lol.

Go tell the fishermen that were spamming swords and soles for hours a day the good news: that they can actually just start mining, see how that goes.

Good luck with that. Oh well. Thanks Nas! Good luck everyone.


You're right. not comparable at all. Good thing I'm here to talk about the entire aspect of crafting called desynthesis and not about NPCing a few items.


My bad, I forgot we are only allowed to talk about what some random dude wants to talk about instead of the actual reason for the changes, and how important those changes were. Carry on. Lupa seems to have nailed it.

Seems like a good change for server accuracy.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:23 am
Posts: 17
heres some of my numbers from a lil over a year ago when i was doing some testing

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:03 pm 
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Posts: 17
Does this mean dynamis should be nerfed to the realm of retail accurate . and relics can go up to over 100m and no one want to play anymore ^.^

Starbright wrote:
King Mob wrote:
Kazen wrote:

Markets will correct over time. Again, being upset that the server makes changes to be era-accurate is putting the cart before the horse.


I don’t think anyone is really upset at the change itself, but rather that this change and it’s negative impact took priority over half a dozen other things that would have made the server era correct and added or fixed content that should be present.


Being able to print gil when you shouldn’t be able to print gil seems worthy


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:16 pm 
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Posts: 775
JordyGG wrote:
Does this mean dynamis should be nerfed to the realm of retail accurate . and relics can go up to over 100m and no one want to play anymore ^.^

Starbright wrote:
King Mob wrote:

I don’t think anyone is really upset at the change itself, but rather that this change and it’s negative impact took priority over half a dozen other things that would have made the server era correct and added or fixed content that should be present.


Being able to print gil when you shouldn’t be able to print gil seems worthy



With every fiber of my being: Yes, that is what it means.

If the server being more accurate, and major accomplishments requiring more effort, work, and teamwork makes you not want to play anymore... I'm not really concerned with it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:16 pm 
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Posts: 604
lol i cant wait for the first bubu group to go in and find og bubu is back.... someday XD


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:30 am
Posts: 176
Starbright wrote:
JordyGG wrote:
Does this mean dynamis should be nerfed to the realm of retail accurate . and relics can go up to over 100m and no one want to play anymore ^.^

Starbright wrote:

Being able to print gil when you shouldn’t be able to print gil seems worthy



With every fiber of my being: Yes, that is what it means.

If the server being more accurate, and major accomplishments requiring more effort, work, and teamwork makes you not want to play anymore... I'm not really concerned with it.


Here is one reason why this is correct. Look at examples like Slynkee, who raced to the furthest levels of endgame at breakneck speed, at least in comparison to retail times. Then got bored with zero content, started on Eden and was pretty much in endgame again already, including doing the new Content that Nasomi doesn't have such as Assault, and is now doing it all again on Wings.

There is a good chance many of those players that left due to having accomplished it all, would still be on Nasomi if the currency from Dynamis didn't provide so much potential gil (from currency selling) and/or Player overall strength due to faster Relic Gear gains along with super powerful Relic Weapons. This is a domino effect, making not only all other content trivial thru the dmg and added effects of Relic Wep procs, but also allowing people to sell currency and buy KC's... trivializing much of the harder endgame content such as SL and AV.

Not sure why this is such a hard concept for people to understand. We play FFXI because it is harder, and the fruits of our labor become more meaningful. If we wanted easy, we'd log on to WoW and hit one button and insta gain Max Level. Retail accurate is an important goal to work towards.

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Last edited by Knarlfist on Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:12 am
Posts: 1465
JordyGG wrote:
Does this mean dynamis should be nerfed to the realm of retail accurate . and relics can go up to over 100m and no one want to play anymore ^.^


Full relic reset as well as a full merit reset? Don't threaten me with a good time.

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This society is really tryin me, ain't no hide and seek
I hide to be far from anxiety, I need my space,
I need my privacy, I need some signs please,
You're all too loud you don't speak quietly, opinions violently.
Deft/Drop


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:37 am
Posts: 350
You know, the relic weapon problem here is an interesting one and I've given it a lot of thought. Nas inherited some bad code from the public codebase in regards to dynamis droprates and TH mechanics.

On retail the average dynamis mob yielded one unit of relic currency on average. I believe with current rates and mechanics, COP dynamis mobs average at around two units of currency (if anyone wants to provide exact numbers here I'd be interested). That's not a huge discrepancy to retail compared to the twenty seven units of currency dynamis jeuno mobs would average when I first got here.

It's not just currency rates that change relic weapon difficulty here though. It's not the mobs either, as they're actually harder in many respects. To figure out why things are so different here, you have to look at the big picture. Retail dynamis had a 72 hour lockout and the armor drop rates were very low. Many casual people who did dynamis as part of a dynamis shell would not even be able to get all the relic armor they wanted, much less relic weapons. These dynamis runs were often times three and four alliances large, splitting the cost of the hourglass more and more ways and taking a safety in numbers approach. We don't see that here at all because the entry fee is flat per person, and you always get your relic armor within one to two runs of that zone. Once you've won a city zone on Nasomi, there's usually no reason to come back to it.

The 72 hour lockout being 24 hours combines with the relic armor drop rates to really screw things. There's nothing non-retail about AOE burning dynamis with blms, in fact it's the path of least resistance for currency farming by far. There is something very non-retail about how many well geared, free agent blms there are running around who can coalesce into these runs. If you're a blm who's been running dyna xarc every weekend with your HNMLS trying to get people their relic armor and dynamis lord drops, that's only one day a week you have free to AOE farm currency relative to nasomi's six. If you're doing COP dynamis with your HNMLS during the weekdays, that leaves 0 days a week you're free to AOE farm currency relative to Nasomi's five.

Now I think if era retail had been allowed to run its course, eventually you would have seen dynamis start to be run more like it is here. People would have eventually leveled more blms, (over years) gotten the relic armor and DL drops they needed, and started breaking down into smaller AOE burns. It would have been more expensive there due to hourglasses, but I think it would have happened and eventually lowered our perceptions of how difficult it is to obtain a relic on retail. I think this is largely true of the AV zergs we see on Nasomi as well had his original mechanics on retail been left alone.

I think my point is, the horse is out of the barn in a lot of ways. You could fix the COP dynamis drop rates by cutting them in half, and cut everyone's relic in half refunding them currency to match, but even that wouldn't change the big picture all that much. Everyone has their relic armor now, and even if those rates are fixed, people won't be getting in each others way like they did on retail. Changing the dynamis lockout to 72 hours now won't change the fact that the server has slammed (30x? 50x? 100x?) as many low man AOE burns as retail would have seen over the same time period. In my conclusion, the server is stuck where it is on dynamis, and if you want to be in those huge city dynamis runs, or spend three years building your relic, you're going to have to find that experience somewhere else.

But hey, there's always mythics.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:05 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:12 am
Posts: 1465
Deadwing wrote:
You know, the relic weapon problem here is an interesting one and I've given it a lot of thought. Nas inherited some bad code from the public codebase in regards to dynamis droprates and TH mechanics.

On retail the average dynamis mob yielded one unit of relic currency on average. I believe with current rates and mechanics, COP dynamis mobs average at around two units of currency (if anyone wants to provide exact numbers here I'd be interested). That's not a huge discrepancy to retail compared to the twenty seven units of currency dynamis jeuno mobs would average when I first got here.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Here's some numbers I can share, 98% of the runs were just nightmare groups+dragons/TEs. I don't know the exact number of mobs per group but I'll get that info when I run Bubu next.

Deadwing wrote:
It's not just currency rates that change relic weapon difficulty here though. It's not the mobs either, as they're actually harder in many respects. To figure out why things are so different here, you have to look at the big picture. Retail dynamis had a 72 hour lockout and the armor drop rates were very low. Many casual people who did dynamis as part of a dynamis shell would not even be able to get all the relic armor they wanted, much less relic weapons. These dynamis runs were often times three and four alliances large, splitting the cost of the hourglass more and more ways and taking a safety in numbers approach. We don't see that here at all because the entry fee is flat per person, and you always get your relic armor within one to two runs of that zone. Once you've won a city zone on Nasomi, there's usually no reason to come back to it.

The 72 hour lockout being 24 hours combines with the relic armor drop rates to really screw things. There's nothing non-retail about AOE burning dynamis with blms, in fact it's the path of least resistance for currency farming by far. There is something very non-retail about how many well geared, free agent blms there are running around who can coalesce into these runs. If you're a blm who's been running dyna xarc every weekend with your HNMLS trying to get people their relic armor and dynamis lord drops, that's only one day a week you have free to AOE farm currency relative to nasomi's six. If you're doing COP dynamis with your HNMLS during the weekdays, that leaves 0 days a week you're free to AOE farm currency relative to Nasomi's five.


The 72-hr lockout is a contributing factor, but the main thing imo is the differences in the zones themselves. IIRC, in retail you had to go find a ??? to unlock your subjobs, actually had to defeat the boss to pop extra monsters. I still feel most of the mobs had higher HP values on retail as well. I remember retail manaburning Dynamis and needing multiple volleys of ga3 from 10+ BLMs.

Deadwing wrote:
Now I think if era retail had been allowed to run its course, eventually you would have seen dynamis start to be run more like it is here. People would have eventually leveled more blms, (over years) gotten the relic armor and DL drops they needed, and started breaking down into smaller AOE burns. It would have been more expensive there due to hourglasses, but I think it would have happened and eventually lowered our perceptions of how difficult it is to obtain a relic on retail. I think this is largely true of the AV zergs we see on Nasomi as well had his original mechanics on retail been left alone.


100% agreed. However I still feel you would have never seen the 4-6 man burns that are active on Nasomi.

Deadwing wrote:
I think my point is, the horse is out of the barn in a lot of ways. You could fix the COP dynamis drop rates by cutting them in half, and cut everyone's relic in half refunding them currency to match, but even that wouldn't change the big picture all that much. Everyone has their relic armor now, and even if those rates are fixed, people won't be getting in each others way like they did on retail. Changing the dynamis lockout to 72 hours now won't change the fact that the server has slammed (30x? 50x? 100x?) as many low man AOE burns as retail would have seen over the same time period. In my conclusion, the server is stuck where it is on dynamis, and if you want to be in those huge city dynamis runs, or spend three years building your relic, you're going to have to find that experience somewhere else.


Baring a full reset of merits/relics/currency, this is the way.

Deadwing wrote:
But hey, there's always mythics.


Kazen wrote:
Don't threaten me with a good time.

_________________
Image
This society is really tryin me, ain't no hide and seek
I hide to be far from anxiety, I need my space,
I need my privacy, I need some signs please,
You're all too loud you don't speak quietly, opinions violently.
Deft/Drop


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