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 Post subject: Re: :)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:20 am
Posts: 276
HarleyM wrote:
Nekozuko wrote:
AraY wrote:
So the man did a Casino and lost his money?

Looks like it


For the benefit of those who may happen upon this thread as it continues:

The OP gambled with a casino. Initially, OP made small bets. Eventually, he gambled his Utsu scroll and won ~250k. Instead of paying up, the casino logged out and hasn't been on since. OP had screenshots to support his claim. Nasomi put out a server message saying that both loans and casinos are done at the user's own risk and that Nasomi will not enforce any player agreements. It did not explicitly state whether or not he would punish those that violate player agreements, but it was clear that he would not compensate players on the losing end of things.

Wait so he (the OP) traded the guy his Utsusemi scroll before rolling? If he did, he just isn't smart and I am hesitate to say this but he deserves it... if he didn't he lost nothing so who cares?

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 Post subject: Re: :)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:07 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:51 pm
Posts: 475
AraY wrote:
HarleyM wrote:
Nekozuko wrote:
Looks like it


For the benefit of those who may happen upon this thread as it continues:

The OP gambled with a casino. Initially, OP made small bets. Eventually, he gambled his Utsu scroll and won ~250k. Instead of paying up, the casino logged out and hasn't been on since. OP had screenshots to support his claim. Nasomi put out a server message saying that both loans and casinos are done at the user's own risk and that Nasomi will not enforce any player agreements. It did not explicitly state whether or not he would punish those that violate player agreements, but it was clear that he would not compensate players on the losing end of things.

Wait so he (the OP) traded the guy his Utsusemi scroll before rolling? If he did, he just isn't smart and I am hesitate to say this but he deserves it... if he didn't he lost nothing so who cares?


Well thats how a casino works. You give them your bet (in gil, or in this case, an item) and they compensate you back if you win, or don't if you lose. So he's not dumb to trade the scroll, as he would have had to trade the gil amount beforehand anyway in order to make the bet happen.


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 Post subject: Re: :)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:14 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:20 am
Posts: 276
lockecole777 wrote:
AraY wrote:
HarleyM wrote:

For the benefit of those who may happen upon this thread as it continues:

The OP gambled with a casino. Initially, OP made small bets. Eventually, he gambled his Utsu scroll and won ~250k. Instead of paying up, the casino logged out and hasn't been on since. OP had screenshots to support his claim. Nasomi put out a server message saying that both loans and casinos are done at the user's own risk and that Nasomi will not enforce any player agreements. It did not explicitly state whether or not he would punish those that violate player agreements, but it was clear that he would not compensate players on the losing end of things.

Wait so he (the OP) traded the guy his Utsusemi scroll before rolling? If he did, he just isn't smart and I am hesitate to say this but he deserves it... if he didn't he lost nothing so who cares?


Well thats how a casino works. You give them your bet (in gil, or in this case, an item) and they compensate you back if you win, or don't if you lose. So he's not dumb to trade the scroll, as he would have had to trade the gil amount beforehand anyway in order to make the bet happen.

Giving someone... a stranger an item or gil and expecting them to honour a gambling agreement on a video game is the very definition of dumb.

Giving anyone anything under any circumstance without getting something as collateral back is just not smart, you don’t now the person. The guy is a douche for logging off with your stuff but at the same time you’re stupid for giving it to him.

_________________
Raja btw 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: :)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:44 am 
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 6:01 pm
Posts: 798
AraY wrote:
lockecole777 wrote:
AraY wrote:
Wait so he (the OP) traded the guy his Utsusemi scroll before rolling? If he did, he just isn't smart and I am hesitate to say this but he deserves it... if he didn't he lost nothing so who cares?


Well thats how a casino works. You give them your bet (in gil, or in this case, an item) and they compensate you back if you win, or don't if you lose. So he's not dumb to trade the scroll, as he would have had to trade the gil amount beforehand anyway in order to make the bet happen.

Giving someone... a stranger an item or gil and expecting them to honour a gambling agreement on a video game is the very definition of dumb.

Giving anyone anything under any circumstance without getting something as collateral back is just not smart, you don’t now the person. The guy is a douche for logging off with your stuff but at the same time you’re stupid for giving it to him.

I think people were gambling with the understanding that the no-fraud rule would deter what happened tonight. Things are obviously going to be different tomorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: :)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:09 am
Posts: 333
Julia wrote:
AraY wrote:
lockecole777 wrote:

Well thats how a casino works. You give them your bet (in gil, or in this case, an item) and they compensate you back if you win, or don't if you lose. So he's not dumb to trade the scroll, as he would have had to trade the gil amount beforehand anyway in order to make the bet happen.

Giving someone... a stranger an item or gil and expecting them to honour a gambling agreement on a video game is the very definition of dumb.

Giving anyone anything under any circumstance without getting something as collateral back is just not smart, you don’t now the person. The guy is a douche for logging off with your stuff but at the same time you’re stupid for giving it to him.

I think people were gambling with the understanding that the no-fraud rule would deter what happened tonight. Things are obviously going to be different tomorrow.


Yes, I was definitely under the impression that rules were enforced. Nas also clarified that this applies to using someone's service for crafting; they don't have to return your item to you if they don't want to.

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In-game name: Mello


Last edited by mello on Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: :)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:11 am 
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Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 8:26 pm
Posts: 3780
They are. That doesn't mean you're free to make mistakes and have nas cover for you, though. Nasomi rules aren't meant to be used for casino insurance.

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 Post subject: Re: :)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:09 am
Posts: 333
Nabutso wrote:
They are. That doesn't mean you're free to make mistakes and have nas cover for you, though. Nasomi rules aren't meant to be used for casino insurance.


You're right it doesn't. And that's fine. My loss will serve as the first post or text on the matter anywhere on the forum or website for future warning to everyone else.

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In-game name: Mello


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 Post subject: Re: :)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:12 am
Posts: 191
AraY wrote:
lockecole777 wrote:
AraY wrote:
Wait so he (the OP) traded the guy his Utsusemi scroll before rolling? If he did, he just isn't smart and I am hesitate to say this but he deserves it... if he didn't he lost nothing so who cares?


Well thats how a casino works. You give them your bet (in gil, or in this case, an item) and they compensate you back if you win, or don't if you lose. So he's not dumb to trade the scroll, as he would have had to trade the gil amount beforehand anyway in order to make the bet happen.

Giving someone... a stranger an item or gil and expecting them to honour a gambling agreement on a video game is the very definition of dumb.

Giving anyone anything under any circumstance without getting something as collateral back is just not smart, you don’t now the person. The guy is a douche for logging off with your stuff but at the same time you’re stupid for giving it to him.


These casinos were very popular on retail, and the vast majority of long-term casinos were trustworthy. Deadwing ran a casino on here for a time, and as far as I know, he always paid out. People have frequently gambled at HNM camps for 100k+, and I'm not aware of anyone welching. It's always a risk, sure, particularly with a low-level alt, but that doesn't make it dumb.


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 Post subject: Re: :)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:35 pm
Posts: 2629
Can I ask why we deleted all the references to the person stealing from people?

Isn’t that literally the only useful piece of information in this entire thread? Nas said he’s not going to police trades, which is fine. So we do. Hiding the identity of a cheater makes everyone feel better about cheating.

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Kazen wrote:
...TopShelf told Nas to roll back all your ZNM gear, do the gilpocalypse and nerf Fishing/RNG into the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: :)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:12 am
Posts: 1465
Wolffhardt wrote:
Can I ask why we deleted all the references to the person stealing from people?

Isn’t that literally the only useful piece of information in this entire thread? Nas said he’s not going to police trades, which is fine. So we do. Hiding the identity of a cheater makes everyone feel better about cheating.


I'm pretty sure OP decided to edit his posts after Nasomi's /servmes.

Iirc, the name of the person was Spookmob, the bets were small at first, with OP winning. This made it's way to Utsusemi: Ichi vs 252k? gil and casinoman lost and d/ced themselves, keeping the scroll.

_________________
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This society is really tryin me, ain't no hide and seek
I hide to be far from anxiety, I need my space,
I need my privacy, I need some signs please,
You're all too loud you don't speak quietly, opinions violently.
Deft/Drop


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