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 Post subject: Re: You fools!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:58 pm 
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Nabutso wrote:


At this point I think you are just yelling things at the screen and trying to make them stick. This is 100% comparable and I think you are trying to justify something that isn't justifiable. Several people had relics that otherwise wouldn't and you say it's okay. Several people have PW gear that shouldn't and it needs to be removed.


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 Post subject: Re: You fools!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:00 pm 
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Respond to any point I made in that post.

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 Post subject: Re: You fools!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:36 pm 
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Let's get the facts out there about relic.

For a very short time when the server had a few dozen, not hundreds, of players, there were some major bugs with drops making relics easier to get. A few players still exist from that era. They do not have 10+ relics each.

Since the few hundred player mark, for a few years, TH was too powerful. This affected all items. Not just relic. But even that wide-spread issue that wasn't specific to Relic's obtain-ability led nas to try to rollback all relics by 1 step. By the time nas tried to do this rollback, the vast majority of relics were obtained "legitimately" (read: not from the very short time that they really were 'ez-mode'). Over 50% of the logged in player population at any given time was lv 75. Some of them had a relic and were working on a 2nd, some were working on their first, etc. The problem? If you just had currency, you just lost nothing. If you had actually invested in a relic, you lost something. And not only that, there were bugs causing people to not be able to continue their relic progress, so they were permanently stuck with a former step, and couldn't even try to continue.

Relics were still hard to obtain. It cost upwards of 15~20m gil before the TH change. Now it's about 30~40m, depending on the currency you need. Regardless of the currency, you still needed to get to 75, to get into a Dynamis shell, to have 18 people together to get the other items required for relic that aren't currency. All these things were still required.

Compare that rollback and it's subsequent undoing to the current proposed one: items obtainable from mobs that have instant respawns, a super-NM of AV's tier being killed by a few people quietly with secret strats (only in the past few months has the -entire- playerbase been made aware that it's BSTs). This is even more gross of an "EZ" mode than the easiest relics ever were for the handful of players who obtained them that way.

The two are completely incomparable. They are not at all the same subject.

The gilocaust, however, fits every single note in the song that is the removal of PW items. People were angry back then too. More people. The entire server.

I got one: The cost of the currency to purchase a weapon was not equatable to how easy it was to get a relic then. When you could farm the currency for one in days instead of over several months do you not call that ezmode? Or when Dynamis is free is that not a signifigant departure from what it is now? And as far as getting into a dynamis shell where 18 other players want to help you being something difficult it's not. Same as any other endgame activity here where you need more than 2 parties for the majority of content if you want to be regularly successful doing that content and obtaining gear.

The gilpocalypse at least made sense when you figure that it was going for so long that it had pervaded everyone through the AH transactions beyond their knowledge and control. Still just like the relic rollback would have done if it wasn't reversed it only hurt the people who had a large chunk of gil but did nothing to harm those who use that gil to purchase gear or level crafts.

Then we get to the current problem. How could Nas not have known people were killing PW over such an extended period of time especially with the watchful Nabutso wandering around town. Did it never occur to you to mention that almost half of the 75 SAM's you were seeing had a Hachi and a Nana? Perhaps it didn't occur to mention it for the same reason that those of us who were killing it didn't mention it? That it didn't seem like a problem. Just another of things that's a little different on Nasomi. And even after all of that why take away the gear? If you're going to use the excuse that PW wasn't killed on retail regularly you may as well not include it in the game. Cause it was never beaten at 75 cap from everything I can find about it. Now was AV ever defeated without exploits that SE later patched. Is the gear from AV being threatened? It's sellable the same as the PW drops.


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 Post subject: Re: You fools!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:03 pm 
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It doesn't take several months to farm for all your relic currency even now. You're grossly unaware as to the endgame scene on this server.

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 Post subject: Re: You fools!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:15 pm 
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Enlighten me? How many currency drop on average from a single run? 40 100's? 5?

Anything on the rest of the points or we just poking one thing and ignoring everything else?


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 Post subject: Re: You fools!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:53 pm 
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On a good farm run you get maybe up to 20. That's really lucky. Not normal.

Your entire point is that it's broken, but you have no frame of reference. Nothing to really discuss if you don't have anything to actually discuss.

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 Post subject: Re: You fools!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:39 pm 
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Since you seem to only want to debate about dynamis instead of reading the other point I guess I'll just repeat it.

Then we get to the current problem. How could Nas not have known people were killing PW over such an extended period of time especially with the watchful Nabutso wandering around town. Did it never occur to you to mention that almost half of the 75 SAM's you were seeing had a Hachi and a Nana? Perhaps it didn't occur to mention it for the same reason that those of us who were killing it didn't mention it? That it didn't seem like a problem. Just another of things that's a little different on Nasomi. And even after all of that why take away the gear? If you're going to use the excuse that PW wasn't killed on retail regularly you may as well not include it in the game. Cause it was never beaten at 75 cap from everything I can find about it. Now was AV ever defeated without exploits that SE later patched. Is the gear from AV being threatened? It's sellable the same as the PW drops.

Then we get to the current problem. How could Nas not have known people were killing PW over such an extended period of time especially with the watchful Nabutso wandering around town. Did it never occur to you to mention that almost half of the 75 SAM's you were seeing had a Hachi and a Nana? Perhaps it didn't occur to mention it for the same reason that those of us who were killing it didn't mention it? That it didn't seem like a problem. Just another of things that's a little different on Nasomi. And even after all of that why take away the gear? If you're going to use the excuse that PW wasn't killed on retail regularly you may as well not include it in the game. Cause it was never beaten at 75 cap from everything I can find about it. Now was AV ever defeated without exploits that SE later patched. Is the gear from AV being threatened? It's sellable the same as the PW drops.

Also you're suggesting that you can get 2 relics per month currently if you were to run dyna with an alliance daily? 3 if you're consistently lucky?


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 Post subject: Re: You fools!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Quote:
How could Nas not have known people were killing PW over such an extended period of time

Nas knew people were killing PW. That isn't what anyone said nas didn't know was going on. You're arguing against a strawman. He didn't know ZNMs had 1 second respawns.

Quote:
Did it never occur to you to mention that almost half of the 75 SAM's you were seeing had a Hachi and a Nana?

He was already aware.

Quote:
If you're going to use the excuse that PW wasn't killed on retail regularly you may as well not include it in the game. Cause it was never beaten at 75 cap from everything I can find about it. Now was AV ever defeated without exploits that SE later patched. Is the gear from AV being threatened? It's sellable the same as the PW drops.

AV is coded to be retail accurate. PW is not. that's the difference.

Quote:
Also you're suggesting that you can get 2 relics per month currently if you were to run dyna with an alliance daily? 3 if you're consistently lucky?

If you get all the other drops required, sure, and if you're consistent and get all the drops. That means doing Dyna Beau, Xarc, a city for the initial stage, waiting for the gobbie to craft it, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: You fools!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:28 am 
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 Post subject: Re: You fools!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:07 am 
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There will never be a 99 cap or abyssea. ToAU was always meant to be included.

You guys are on drugs.

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