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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:15 pm 
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Posts: 767
Having leveled THF on Nasomi to 75 on one char and 50 on another:

Even parties with "good" players rarely make it possible to SATA, and the lack of the assassin trait at 30 means you're kinda fucked.

It's also harder to SATAWS on Nas than it was on retail because your swing timer never gets paused here, whereas using abilities/casting/etc would pause it on retail. If the swing timer finishes while you're using SATA, if your timing isn't perfect on hitting the WS, you're going to autoattack before it goes off. (If you don't have the timing down, it's easier to just move out of melee range so you can't autoattack)


Viper bite is still really good damage right when you get it, if you can manage it. I wouldn't expect someone fresh to Nas to manage it consistently, even if the party was actually accommodating it - and they almost certainly weren't.

I don't expect someone fresh to have marksmanship leveled and acid bolts, either. Especially since it just recently became feasible again to ranged attack from close range.

You should have had arrows, though. Or some other form of ranged attack to pull.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:35 pm 
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Posts: 145
Location: Baltimore
cthalupa wrote:
You should have had arrows, though. Or some other form of ranged attack to pull.



yeah thats on me, i got some now. lesson learned

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:30 am
Posts: 176
This seems like an appropriate spot to leave a little bit of advice for Nasomi players, that happen to find themselves in a party with a THF and might not realize there is something they can do to make the flow of the party much smoother:

If you are on a heavy DD job you of course will want to spend the majority of your time to the side or back of the mob to avoid conical TP moves. But right before you are going to solo WS, or WS to open up a skillchain, swing to the front of the mob... right behind your tank if you can. Then launch your WS, and wait a few seconds to see where the mob's ire is focused, or until your THF closes with a huge SA + Fast Blade or Combo. At that point you can wrap back around to the side/back of the mob.

Just the one little change of habit of moving in front to WS, can smooth out the kinks in those low lvl xp parties around 15-35, and at the same time get your poor struggling THF to breathe a sigh of relief. Hope this helps someone ;-)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:45 am
Posts: 186
Knarlfist wrote:
This seems like an appropriate spot to leave a little bit of advice for Nasomi players, that happen to find themselves in a party with a THF and might not realize there is something they can do to make the flow of the party much smoother:

If you are on a heavy DD job you of course will want to spend the majority of your time to the side or back of the mob to avoid conical TP moves. But right before you are going to solo WS, or WS to open up a skillchain, swing to the front of the mob... right behind your tank if you can. Then launch your WS, and wait a few seconds to see where the mob's ire is focused, or until your THF closes with a huge SA + Fast Blade or Combo. At that point you can wrap back around to the side/back of the mob.

Just the one little change of habit of moving in front to WS, can smooth out the kinks in those low lvl xp parties around 15-35, and at the same time get your poor struggling THF to breathe a sigh of relief. Hope this helps someone ;-)

Y'know, after 4 years I only just completed thf due to the aggravation caused by trying to level it. I gotta say if more people partied like this it would've been loads less stressful. Parties with a thf puller likely have a thf puller because they couldn't find a brd, so chances are the kills are gonna be slower so there's almost always a chance for the thf to throw a little DD into the mix while pulling, but if the party doesn't set roles and position properly it will amount to peanuts. With well devised positioning a thf can contribute some massive skillchains every 3rd or 4th mob. That adds up.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:57 pm
Posts: 775
cthalupa wrote:
Having leveled THF on Nasomi to 75 on one char and 50 on another:

Even parties with "good" players rarely make it possible to SATA, and the lack of the assassin trait at 30 means you're kinda fucked.

It's also harder to SATAWS on Nas than it was on retail because your swing timer never gets paused here, whereas using abilities/casting/etc would pause it on retail. If the swing timer finishes while you're using SATA, if your timing isn't perfect on hitting the WS, you're going to autoattack before it goes off. (If you don't have the timing down, it's easier to just move out of melee range so you can't autoattack)


Viper bite is still really good damage right when you get it, if you can manage it. I wouldn't expect someone fresh to Nas to manage it consistently, even if the party was actually accommodating it - and they almost certainly weren't.

I don't expect someone fresh to have marksmanship leveled and acid bolts, either. Especially since it just recently became feasible again to ranged attack from close range.

You should have had arrows, though. Or some other form of ranged attack to pull.



however once you get THF to 75 reahc out to Lupa on how to merit it. There is a right way, and you probably won't be doing it on your own.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:24 pm
Posts: 767
Starbright wrote:
cthalupa wrote:
Having leveled THF on Nasomi to 75 on one char and 50 on another:

Even parties with "good" players rarely make it possible to SATA, and the lack of the assassin trait at 30 means you're kinda fucked.

It's also harder to SATAWS on Nas than it was on retail because your swing timer never gets paused here, whereas using abilities/casting/etc would pause it on retail. If the swing timer finishes while you're using SATA, if your timing isn't perfect on hitting the WS, you're going to autoattack before it goes off. (If you don't have the timing down, it's easier to just move out of melee range so you can't autoattack)


Viper bite is still really good damage right when you get it, if you can manage it. I wouldn't expect someone fresh to Nas to manage it consistently, even if the party was actually accommodating it - and they almost certainly weren't.

I don't expect someone fresh to have marksmanship leveled and acid bolts, either. Especially since it just recently became feasible again to ranged attack from close range.

You should have had arrows, though. Or some other form of ranged attack to pull.



however once you get THF to 75 reahc out to Lupa on how to merit it. There is a right way, and you probably won't be doing it on your own.

or people could go read https://www.bluegartr.com/forums/117-FF ... arts-Redux from back when people did the work for them. Most of the mechanics from in era as discussed on BG are roughly accurate.

Ain't got time to handhold every nerd

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 8:12 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Baltimore
cthalupa wrote:
Starbright wrote:
cthalupa wrote:
Having leveled THF on Nasomi to 75 on one char and 50 on another:

Even parties with "good" players rarely make it possible to SATA, and the lack of the assassin trait at 30 means you're kinda fucked.

It's also harder to SATAWS on Nas than it was on retail because your swing timer never gets paused here, whereas using abilities/casting/etc would pause it on retail. If the swing timer finishes while you're using SATA, if your timing isn't perfect on hitting the WS, you're going to autoattack before it goes off. (If you don't have the timing down, it's easier to just move out of melee range so you can't autoattack)


Viper bite is still really good damage right when you get it, if you can manage it. I wouldn't expect someone fresh to Nas to manage it consistently, even if the party was actually accommodating it - and they almost certainly weren't.

I don't expect someone fresh to have marksmanship leveled and acid bolts, either. Especially since it just recently became feasible again to ranged attack from close range.

You should have had arrows, though. Or some other form of ranged attack to pull.



however once you get THF to 75 reahc out to Lupa on how to merit it. There is a right way, and you probably won't be doing it on your own.

or people could go read https://www.bluegartr.com/forums/117-FF ... arts-Redux from back when people did the work for them. Most of the mechanics from in era as discussed on BG are roughly accurate.

Ain't got time to handhold every nerd


i did feel the room out, as soon as became real critical of my moves, i wrote a VB macro between mobs for the upcoming skill.
but If you see me online and dont have acid bolts equipped, make sure you let me know. :P

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:57 pm
Posts: 775
cthalupa wrote:
Starbright wrote:
cthalupa wrote:
Having leveled THF on Nasomi to 75 on one char and 50 on another:

Even parties with "good" players rarely make it possible to SATA, and the lack of the assassin trait at 30 means you're kinda fucked.

It's also harder to SATAWS on Nas than it was on retail because your swing timer never gets paused here, whereas using abilities/casting/etc would pause it on retail. If the swing timer finishes while you're using SATA, if your timing isn't perfect on hitting the WS, you're going to autoattack before it goes off. (If you don't have the timing down, it's easier to just move out of melee range so you can't autoattack)


Viper bite is still really good damage right when you get it, if you can manage it. I wouldn't expect someone fresh to Nas to manage it consistently, even if the party was actually accommodating it - and they almost certainly weren't.

I don't expect someone fresh to have marksmanship leveled and acid bolts, either. Especially since it just recently became feasible again to ranged attack from close range.

You should have had arrows, though. Or some other form of ranged attack to pull.



however once you get THF to 75 reahc out to Lupa on how to merit it. There is a right way, and you probably won't be doing it on your own.

or people could go read https://www.bluegartr.com/forums/117-FF ... arts-Redux from back when people did the work for them. Most of the mechanics from in era as discussed on BG are roughly accurate.

Ain't got time to handhold every nerd


lupa

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:24 pm
Posts: 85
I don't see whats wrong here... he isn't overly flamming you. He's not cursing or being too rude. He is explaining how you should do your job to benefit the party experiences gain. You weren't prepared at all and didn't know so whats he supposed to do? How would you like him to explain how to play to you? Thfs are supposed to sata right away and if you don't see them setting up right away then type it in chat, make a macro for them to set up with a nice call until they get used to it and do it naturally. Players like this are disgusting too that don't want to learn and get triggered when they have to do something besides being lazy in a party.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 8:12 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Baltimore
Guscles wrote:
I don't see whats wrong here... he isn't overly flamming you. He's not cursing or being too rude. He is explaining how you should do your job to benefit the party experiences gain. You weren't prepared at all and didn't know so whats he supposed to do? How would you like him to explain how to play to you? Thfs are supposed to sata right away and if you don't see them setting up right away then type it in chat, make a macro for them to set up with a nice call until they get used to it and do it naturally. Players like this are disgusting too that don't want to learn and get triggered when they have to do something besides being lazy in a party.



i agree that players that cannot take criticism are defeating themselves.

However, I took it all in stride. From the very beginning. I offered to leave the party because i wasnt prepared with a ranged attack. I even asked if I should find a replacement, and what job they would like.
I was using SATA every minute the counter on "Recast" was down. I landed a few of them, but since there was no initial voker or a skill chain order, it was next to impossible to do it consistently.
not to mention the PL was pulling the hate right against the hallway wall.
It wasnt a "flamming" but an expectation from a level I was just not at. You invite a lowbie 31-32 you should know off the top that they dont have Viper Bite yet.

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