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 Post subject: Raging Rush
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:11 am 
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It isn't coded correctly and does underwhelming damage even with pretty much the best gear in the game. I don't know if it's related to modifiers or ftp values but compared to retail it's a shell of what it should be. Unrelated but Mighty Strikes crits don't proc on WS like they are supposed to.

For anyone considering taking up Warrior keep in mind that Axe/Ridill will dominate anything outside of a relic GA here.

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 Post subject: Re: Raging Rush
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:18 am 
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Arx wrote:
It isn't coded correctly and does underwhelming damage even with pretty much the best gear in the game. I don't know if it's related to modifiers or ftp values but compared to retail it's a shell of what it should be. Unrelated but Mighty Strikes crits don't proc on WS like they are supposed to.

For anyone considering taking up Warrior keep in mind that Axe/Ridill will dominate anything outside of a relic GA here.

Rampage feels pretty shitty compared to retail too.

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 Post subject: Re: Raging Rush
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:16 pm 
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Agree here. The damage on raging rush can definitely feel underwhelming at times, but I still think gaxe performs fairly well at camps like Miseraux with enough accuracy.

I am not 8/8 on axe or sword yet so this could be why. Rampage was able to spike much higher (1500+ with agressor/berserk), but it was also guilty of some of the lowest damage while raging rush remained pretty consistent (800-1400).

Until we get things coded like mob resistance build and not being able to sleep/silence/bind/grav 99% of HNM/NM, I would say it's not that big of a deal when you look at the big picture.

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 Post subject: Re: Raging Rush
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:17 pm 
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Gweivyth wrote:
Rampage feels pretty shitty compared to retail too.


Rampage is really powerful with capped accuracy and proper gear/food. For a BST I would guess it's pretty terrible since pretty much all WS on Nasomi benefit from attack more than they did in retail. My only guess is that it's probably because of the new era defense formula used here. BST lacks pretty hard in the attack and double attack department compared to WAR so you likely won't see very good Rampages on it.

Metatron luckily is pretty decent so GA isn't completely dead, especially for big mobs given the DEF Down it applies. Like Blade Metsu however its damage is all over the map almost as if it functions like a spell and sometimes gets half resisted. I've noticed that with every relic WS so far that I've had. Even with Mercy Stroke often times a triple attack proc will do less than a single hit. Hopefully WS will get a rework down the line but for now we just have to learn and adapt when it comes to gear/food choices.

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 Post subject: Re: Raging Rush
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:14 pm 
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Arx wrote:
It isn't coded correctly and does underwhelming damage even with pretty much the best gear in the game. I don't know if it's related to modifiers or ftp values but compared to retail it's a shell of what it should be. Unrelated but Mighty Strikes crits don't proc on WS like they are supposed to.

For anyone considering taking up Warrior keep in mind that Axe/Ridill will dominate anything outside of a relic GA here.


The modifiers are actually correct, based on what you said in regards to Mighty Strikes not processing on the weaponskill, it would appear the issue is the weaponskill is missing the critical hit element entirely. Increased Ftp would only increase critical hit rate for this weaponskill in particular, but if it's unable to critical, that could explain a big reason it's so underwhelming.

There is more to it than that, though. A simplified version of retail's damage formula is being used in certain parts of the equations here. In particular the calculations pertaining to Pdif. Cratio appeared to be closely functional but I never did in depth tests to see the extent of it (and it being functional with a simplified formula hurts players more than it did on retail against enemies T and above.) Best bet would be to not really reference retail where this is concerned, and as you said, work off with what you can for now.

Kubisnaxx wrote:
I feel like a lot of the major weapon skills on content above level 75 (whether that be merit mobs, HNMs, dynamis, etc) do not do as much damage as they should. A BiS relic SAM shouldn't be doing barely 200 damage on fafnir with a sneak attack tachi gekko, for example.


Doesn't help when Tachi: Gekko, and the WS like it, are missing their innate +100% attack boost.


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 Post subject: Re: Raging Rush
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:45 pm 
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Arx wrote:
Gweivyth wrote:
Rampage feels pretty shitty compared to retail too.


Rampage is really powerful with capped accuracy and proper gear/food. For a BST I would guess it's pretty terrible since pretty much all WS on Nasomi benefit from attack more than they did in retail. My only guess is that it's probably because of the new era defense formula used here. BST lacks pretty hard in the attack and double attack department compared to WAR so you likely won't see very good Rampages on it.

Yeah, my BST gear is only short a few pieces (Rajas and Torque mostly) and I've toyed around with /WAR a little bit, it has been horribly underwhelming. I was considering working on Guttler since my other job doesn't have a relic weapon, but after a LOT of testing I don't think it would even be worth it unless Onslaught is a lot better than it was in retail.

Not being able to crit might be a factor in Rampage being so lame also, but I have no way to confirm this since I don't have Mighty Strikes.

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Let's do the Time Warp again!

New to Nasomi and have a question? PM me, I'd be glad to help!


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 Post subject: Re: Raging Rush
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:50 pm 
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Insight wrote:
The modifiers are actually correct, based on what you said in regards to Mighty Strikes not processing on the weaponskill, it would appear the issue is the weaponskill is missing the critical hit element entirely. Increased Ftp would only increase critical hit rate for this weaponskill in particular, but if it's unable to critical, that could explain a big reason it's so underwhelming.


I've seen that the modifers are at least set correctly in the LUA, so hopefully their bonus is being applied properly as well. As for the crit if you look in the LUA at least you can see that params.canCrit = true; for Raging Rush on the current DSP. I would assume it's the same on Nas's LUA but there is no way to know for sure. It certainly has non DA spikes from time to time so I'd believe the crit is functioning, however its overall power is just off. Rampage never outperformed Raging Rush on IT mobs post the 2h update like it does here.

As for Mighty Strikes testing I've just used many Metatron and Steel Cyclones with Mighty Strikes up and with forced DA's and they often do the same or less than a normal one. In retail when you forced a crit on a WS that couldn't crit you knew it. If Pdif is indeed uncapped or capped very high here it's probably the only thing keeping melee DD's viable due to how messed up everything else is. Maybe DW will fix all this stuff after he gets all the missing ENMs and BCNMs fixed.

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 Post subject: Re: Raging Rush
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:33 pm 
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Aselius wrote:

Rampage certainly critcals



This is correct. Very measurable difference with Mighty Strikes up.

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 Post subject: Re: Raging Rush
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:39 pm 
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Aperture wrote:
This is correct. Very measurable difference with Mighty Strikes up.


I certainly haven't experienced that with Mighty Strikes. Perhaps it only works on WS that can crit natively such as Rampage and RR, but I haven't noticed it. It certainly doesn't do crap for Steel Cyclone or Metatron. I would say most notably not seeing an increase at all in Penta Thrust damage with Mighty Strikes is the biggest sign there is an issue.

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