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 Post subject: Does Paladin Work?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:13 pm
Posts: 19
I am newish, and attempting to pick a main.
I have seen several posts that say threat is somehow off on this server, and that TP gain is increased for monsters- so tanks get hit much harder.

Is PLD/WAR not good on this server? Are there better tanks? Thanks!!


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 Post subject: Re: Does Paladin Work?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:12 pm
Posts: 752
MundoBot wrote:
I am newish, and attempting to pick a main.
I have seen several posts that say threat is somehow off on this server, and that TP gain is increased for monsters- so tanks get hit much harder.

Is PLD/WAR not good on this server? Are there better tanks? Thanks!!


Going to be highly opinion based, mainly because people that main pld are passionate about the style the play.

My personal opinion is pld/war is best for exp, and pld/nin is best for tanking higher content. I also think emnity is off, but that's just me. I mained pld religiously in retail for about 5 years, and can adjust playstyle on nasomis emnity based off that experience. My personal adjustments serve me well. Once you get your style down and make it to 75 pld with just a few merits, you'll find yourself highly valued amongst your teams. It's a great job, and if you enjoy a challenge, you'll love it.

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 Post subject: Re: Does Paladin Work?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:50 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:37 am
Posts: 333
On the last major thread about the enmity system being wrong I posted this:
Deadwing wrote:
https://kanican.livejournal.com/tag/enmity%20table!

This resource details how the hate system was discovered to function on retail in november 2007 and is the model that nasomi's hate system is built on.
Note: the CE values of dispel/sleep/sleepII on nasomi reflect their pre-nerf values of 320/320/480 rather than ones changed on the table in 2010.

Nasomi's hate system varies in three ways that I know of:
1) Hate is cleared differently in some circumstances. These involve things like the player dying/becoming otherwise untargetable.
2) There is no such thing as a passive hate list on Nasomi. That is to say, aggroing a mob will not give you a grace period on enmity before you act on the mob or heal.
3) Generating over 10k enmity with a single action can cause hate to reset rather than cap.

If someone can demonstrably show through testing that hate values or decay mechanics vary from the livejournal post in ways other than the ones listed above, I will reward them with 5M of Nasomi gil. Post results in this thread. This offer expires at 11:59pm Monday November 4th. If two people highlight the same inconsistency, only the first to report it will be paid. If more than 5 valid inconsistencies are shown, the offer will expire at that time and the 6th will not be paid.


No one could show anything wrong. I would submit that people's memories of retail's enmity system are far more inaccurate than the enmity system itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Does Paladin Work?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:27 am
Posts: 185
Paladin is a tank? i guess i played my Pld wrong, normally im just another DD in exp pt...no tanky tanky until end game relics/meritted


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 Post subject: Re: Does Paladin Work?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:13 pm
Posts: 19
1. Do PLDs get party invites endgame? What can they participate in?
2. Can they get a group for bcnms? Say, if I want to farm Refresh and sell it, can I get a group together for that, or will no one want a PAL in that?


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 Post subject: Re: Does Paladin Work?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:45 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:30 pm
Posts: 225
PLD doesn't have much uses before 75 and then it becomes the easiest/safest tank for most HNMs with ninja subjob. I wouldn't recommend levelling it as your first job to 75 but it can and has been done.

Deadwing wrote:
(...)


There is one thing I'm convinced is different than retail : enmity from damage takes enmity mods into account, which shouldnt be the case according to some dev interview I read a while back and current dsp code. Mostly from anecdotal evidence of pulling hate while dealing less damage on blm with enmity merits. Shouldn't be too hard to test with a timed nuke on passive mob with same stats except enmity but it makes me wonder what happens when 2 chars have exactly the same hate value.


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 Post subject: Re: Does Paladin Work?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:03 am 
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Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 12:00 pm
Posts: 42
Nobody has ever wanted my PLD for a BCNM 40 to farm refresh. In my personal experience the most popular BCNM jobs have been Beastmaster, Red Mage, and Ninja


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 Post subject: Re: Does Paladin Work?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:37 am
Posts: 333
Naimah wrote:
PLD doesn't have much uses before 75 and then it becomes the easiest/safest tank for most HNMs with ninja subjob. I wouldn't recommend levelling it as your first job to 75 but it can and has been done.

Deadwing wrote:
(...)


There is one thing I'm convinced is different than retail : enmity from damage takes enmity mods into account, which shouldnt be the case according to some dev interview I read a while back and current dsp code. Mostly from anecdotal evidence of pulling hate while dealing less damage on blm with enmity merits. Shouldn't be too hard to test with a timed nuke on passive mob with same stats except enmity but it makes me wonder what happens when 2 chars have exactly the same hate value.


As far as I can tell kanican never explicitly tested it. I know the formula was shuffled around a lot for abyssea and beyond. I was always under the impression those mods did affect damage dealt enmity in era. I do recall a ranger that focused on enmity- consistently winning the ixion parse. I also recall blms slipping enmity- into their gearsets when they had nothing better to go there, novia+moldy especially. None of that proves anything of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Does Paladin Work?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:13 pm
Posts: 19
OK, What about merit parties? Do paladins get invited? What is the standard merit party members?


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 Post subject: Re: Does Paladin Work?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:59 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:51 pm
Posts: 510
MundoBot wrote:
OK, What about merit parties? Do paladins get invited? What is the standard merit party members?

No it doesnt. A good merit party would be Brd Cor Rdm 3x heavymelee

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