Just pointing this out if you're looking to build a 5 or 6 hit build, and are wondering why it's not giving you as many as it should:
only "TP Per Hit" from your bow/gun is taken into account => you need more Store TP than you expected!

@Nasomi: if you could have a look into this and make it work the way it's supposed to, that'd be great!

Haven't looked into this myself yet since I haven't finished leveling my Sam sub or have a Rajas, but if this is true then this definitely needs to be fixed.. I mean you can still do damage as Rng/nin, but it makes /sam a lot more useless for sure.

Probably want to post this into the other section of the forums for bugs or w/e yeah? and report to Nasomi directly on Naschat till he takes notice

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not only for /SAM; with the right gears, a RNG could hit a 5 hit build w/o /SAM, aka /WAR, so this is pretty huge...

also, posted this in the bug section, as suggested. feel free to go poke the bear on naschat though, I ain't about bugging him on there for this. lol

Using Twitch emotes unironically outside of Twitch LUL

but seriously, what's wrong with /sam on content that doesn't require shadows to absorb AoE? This server's /nin fetish on basically every dd job at 75 makes me laugh

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Hmmm, for something like gun yeah? Idk how they'd reach a 5-hit with archery without Sam sub or access to T4 ZNM hachi gear on this server with the equipment we have available unless I'm missing something though. Currently /nin or /war without using Rajas or Enki legs, ammo delay not affecting TP/hit puts us at an 8-hit build. With ammo delay counting it would put us at a 7 hit, so that's already pretty significant.


Edit:

I did the math and although it's only slightly off, we aren't even getting correct TP returns for just the Ranged weapon slot atm.

Assuming using Eurytos Bow (490 Delay), Nin subjob, naked:
61+[(490-180)×88÷360]
comes out to 136 TP/hit

we're currently getting 126 per hit in-game.
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If you count the ammo delay like it's supposed to be

Assuming Ebow(490 delay)+Demon or Kabura Arrow(90 Delay), Nin SJ, naked
149+[(580-540)×20÷360]

Then we should be getting 151/hit counting ammo, but we're getting 126. It's a pretty significant loss of DPS over time due to having a lower WS frequency.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Tactical_Points

You can also just google FFXI Calculator and it's accurate as well.

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If you are using a STP calculator be aware that the formula for STP on retail changed, I noticed this some time ago when i was punching in numbers for sam in FFXIcalculator and after i put in 6 stp for rajas and brutal it was saying its a 6hit lol, so weapons give more TP per hit in retail now no idea when that changed.

http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Tact ... ldid=71125
http://www.playonline.com/pcd/update/ff ... etail.html

Taking that into consideration, using the supposed older TP formula ffxiclopedia gives for a pre-2006 TP gain update that occurred:

Assuming using Eurytos Bow (490 Delay), Nin subjob, naked:
6.0 + (490 / 80)
= 12.125 converted to the version of TP our server uses would be 121 TP/hit
Actual current TP/hit = 126 so we're actually getting a bit more than we're supposed to according to the older formula. (Edit: But we're only getting more TP than we should be accounting for only the bow delay. Ammo delay is still not being applied except in the case of the amount of time it takes to fire a shot. )

Idk how accurate any old retail formulas are going to be though since there's obvious differences. Really, I guess the more glaring issue is ammo delay not being accounted for still.

I'm no longer online, but do you happen to know if the same thing applies to Marksmanship and other Bows by chance? I'm also curious to know if the TP Calculator is slightly off calculations for all weapon types or is it only ranged attacks. I'll definitely test later if no one else is able to.

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After further testing, it seems multiple weapon types are getting different TP returns using the old formula here:


http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Tact ... ldid=71125

But it only seems to apply to weapons in the 480+ category. I don't have a ton of tests put into the sub 480 delay melee weapons, but from the few I did test the formula holds true, even for a lower delay ranged weapon like Obow(432).

Though as far as ranged weapons are concerned, this bug does seem to also apply to Marksmanship.

Another interesting note is that ammo does seem to effect TP returns, but not enough to actually matter.

Using Obow(432 delay), Thf sub (to rule out the possibility of Nin dual wield applying to RA for whatever strange Private Server reason), naked
192 Delay bolts yields 109 TP
240 Delay yields 110 TP
288 Delay yields 111 TP

Same test parameters but with Ebow(490)
90 Delay arrows yields 126 TP
120 Delay yields 127 TP

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Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I ran some more tests this week. There is some good news too though.

The good news is that I found that Store TP seems to be calculated the same way here as retail.

The bad news is that an Ebow Rng /Nin or War requires 14 STP just to achieve a 7-hit build

and

33 Store TP for a 6 hit build. Quite the farcry from in era retail x-hit builds. I don't think a 6-hit build is actually feasible to use on this server in Ranger's current state, and it's just flat out not possible as /Nin or War without a Corsair in your party using Sam Roll.

Ontop of being required to sub Samurai you would need to use:
Mekki Shakki (5)
Rajas Ring (5)
Enkidu's leggings (5)
Brutal or Attila's earring (1)
Almah Torque (2)

at a minimum without outside Cor buffs or food.

I'm not quite sure if the loss of multiple slots just for Store TP is worth it. Either way, it's a bit absurd that we need to go to such lengths just to have a normal TP/hit ratio. 126 TP a hit is something you would expect from a level 15 job in the dunes, not a 75 Ranger with a long delay weapon. 8 hits to 1000 TP for any two-handers feels like shit regardless of the job; Only, Rng doesn't get haste/flurry, or velocity shot to make up for it.

Just to heck around I went ahead and tested the delay for the bow as well.

Following this formula:

Source: http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Delay

The expected value for Ebow(not counting ammo delay) 0 Snapshot merits from nocking the arrow to the moment it leaves the bow is:
490/110 = 4.45 seconds

However after analyzing it frame by frame:
https://streamable.com/108n4

it comes out to about 5.233 seconds. Which is basically the correct value if you INCLUDE ammo delay in the equation.
580/110 = 5.27 seconds

So only ammo delay's negatives are being factored into Ranger's TP phase currently.

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Quoting since it's a new page for visibility.




And after seeing this quote from the author of the bug thread we posted in, I'm honestly hoping Lyle is wrong. Very surprised no other Rangers seem to care about this lol. Can anyone else shed some light on this or confirm it?

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2777&start=110#p31032

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