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Jude
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:31 am 
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Epyon wrote:
How do you think AV and DL are being killed? DRK zerg + broken lunar cry. I wouldn't get your hopes up for a fix anytime soon; it would cause quite the outcry among the endgame community.


That's to bad... Fix the bugs.

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Epyon
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:10 am 
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Posts: 338
Baldr wrote:
If Feint worked properly, it would fill the role Lunar Cry currently occupies-- moreover it would free a spot in the ally for another DRK rather than a /SMN. Desperate Blows being broken is an issue, but I wouldn't give it so much credit as to suggest that it provides the difference between a win or a loss on either AV or DL (because as everyone who participates in endgame knows, DL is oh so hard.) I'm willing to bet that more than 3/4's of our DRKs never bothered to merit Desperate Blows anyway, and it certainly doesn't appear to be hampering our progress any.

Sure, this needs to be fixed, but I don't see anyone in the endgame community shedding a tear. The better players always adapt.


I was not speaking specifically just to Desperate Blows, but rather the dependence of most in endgame to take advantage of what is broken to make things easier/faster. I'm not faulting anyone for it, because we all do it, but it would be nice if a great many skills/items/effects could be fixed or balanced to even the playing field for certain jobs vs others. It gets kind of boring when the lion's share of endgame falls into either DRK zerg or BLM/BLU/SMN burn territory, with few other options being worthwhile and/or viable. However, if Desperate Blows is indeed bugged as he says, it's certainly not harming your KC or Ridill DRKs who have it merited while zerging AV though, now is it? If Lunar Cry got fixed tomorrow though...
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Fluxi
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:28 am 
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At best, that’s a poor abstraction and it misses the point. The Nana as a self-contained item functions correctly. It’s Zanshin, as stated, that’s broken and the Nana becomes stronger as a result. In terms of non-relic GKs available, the Nana is still far more likely to out perform other options with a properly coded Zanshin effect in place. Granted, though we haven’t had the pleasure of testing Hagun on Nasomi, we have had the opportunity to play with the Futsuno— and while it’s a fun toy, it has too great a disparity to close in order to be viable against a Nana, with or without a correctly functioning Zanshin effect.


How exactly is Zanshin working atm?
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Naimah
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:25 pm 
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Posts: 230
Baldr wrote:
Naimah wrote:
Baldr wrote:
Both are obviously great items for SAM, but you might find that the Nana has a more noticeable umph than the Hachiryu body if you're prioritizing which to get first.


Another broken item/effect.



At best, that’s a poor abstraction and it misses the point. [...]


Not really, that's exactly why I wrote what I wrote: "item/effect" because Zanshin itself being broken doesn't change the fact that the Zanshin enhancement on Nana is totally different from Hachiryu Haramaki enhancement.
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Baldr
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Naimah wrote:
Baldr wrote:
Naimah wrote:

Another broken item/effect.



At best, that’s a poor abstraction and it misses the point. [...]


Not really, that's exactly why I wrote what I wrote: "item/effect" because Zanshin itself being broken doesn't change the fact that the Zanshin enhancement on Nana is totally different from Hachiryu Haramaki enhancement.


By suggesting that the Nana was “another broken item/effect” without context or further explanation, you established the implication that the Nana’s efficacy was rooted not in its own merits, but rather relied on bugs relating to its principal stat bonus. ie., Zanshin activation rate, 100%. While Zanshin currently functions incorrectly relative to retail, and the Nana is certainly made more potent as a result, it is a bit misleading to shrug it off. Even under retail conditions, the Nana would be a vastly more reasonable investment than a Hachiryu Haramaki (Zanshin, 1%) given what other options are available to SAMs in those respective slots.

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I’m going to murder Nas.
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Bakum
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:20 am 
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Posts: 38
Hello, I'm just confused, what is so strong about nana and the Zanshin effect on this server?
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Nabutso
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:58 am 
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Bakum wrote:
Hello, I'm just confused, what is so strong about nana and the Zanshin effect on this server?

Nana + Zanshin = 100% accuracy

Zanshin activates on every miss, including Zanshin misses. This means you will swing until you hit.

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Bakum
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:02 am 
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Nabutso wrote:
Bakum wrote:
Hello, I'm just confused, what is so strong about nana and the Zanshin effect on this server?

Nana + Zanshin = 100% accuracy

Zanshin activates on every miss, including Zanshin misses. This means you will swing until you hit.

Ah I see, does that also mean you double attack every time as well with Hasso up or are they not tied together?
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Nabutso
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:13 am 
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Bakum wrote:
Nabutso wrote:
Bakum wrote:
Hello, I'm just confused, what is so strong about nana and the Zanshin effect on this server?

Nana + Zanshin = 100% accuracy

Zanshin activates on every miss, including Zanshin misses. This means you will swing until you hit.

Ah I see, does that also mean you double attack every time as well with Hasso up or are they not tied together?

You do not double attack every time with Hasso up.

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Tororu
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:19 pm 
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Posts: 249
Nabutso wrote:
Bakum wrote:
Hello, I'm just confused, what is so strong about nana and the Zanshin effect on this server?

Nana + Zanshin = 100% accuracy

Zanshin activates on every miss, including Zanshin misses. This means you will swing until you hit.



100% accuracy... activates on every miss... you dont know the definition of 100% sir lol
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