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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:34 am 
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Ok fine. Predatory pricing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing

Happy? Dumping is a special case of predatory pricing, and sometimes applies here because undercutters are expansive and look for unexploited markets.


Last edited by Julia on Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:34 am 
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If you want to collaborate with someone on pricing, I'd suggest reaching out to them directly rather than putting this on the forums. This post will accomplish nothing.

@Julia Why do you list your education in your forum signature?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:35 am 
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Posts: 133
dimitri wrote:
Julia wrote:
What you are describing is called "dumping" in economics. In many places IRL, it is illegal if it harms a market. People get away with it here, however, because Nas does not have any explicit market-competition rules. One could make the argument that dumping is actually injurious to gameplay and thus should be considered a rule violation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)

wrong. this is not dumping. at least read the lolwiki u referenced.


In a roundabout kind of way, it is on the right track though. The products are traded with other nations across the AH system... so they aren't staying in the home market.

Granted, the cookies example has only dropped to 1 gil under the vendor cost so far (which, in the case of the vendor in Bastok, is below that local market cost, and it is getting sold in other markets for less than that local market cost), so the basic concept could still kinda apply to some degree.

Regardless, people intentionally continually crashing markets like this is not only bad form, but potentially bad for the community as well--especially if it escalates.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:41 am 
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Posts: 133
Mordikaiser wrote:
Please stop whining about this non issue.

FFXI is a game, and more than any crafting limitations or anything else the players that have more freedom to play inherently control more power over literally every aspect of game play. You know why cookies are cheap? Because players with more time than you, can stand to make a considerable amount of money on their time by undercutting you. It doesn't matter that their profit margins are non existent. So long as their profit is 1g or greater they have all the reason in the world to do it. Additionally, the fact that its not readily apparent as an optimal is irrelevant (though clearly it could be), because once again its a game and people derive enjoyment in whatever way they choose.

This won't ever change. It won't even change in a 7 item per character ecosystem. In fact, I'd argue that any more restrictive limitations on the auction house system will produce a worse outcome because it encourages degenerate player behavior like cheating and other things that compromise the integrity of the game. Especially because on retail, so long as your wallet was big enough you could own as many 16 character accounts as you wanted granting wealthy players like those with more time an inherent advantage. An option that doesn't exist on Nasomi any longer, and one that may very well create unintended consequences.

So either cut your losses and move on, quit, or find a better method for yourself. But don't whine. Its unbecoming and fairly childish.

Whining?

I made ONE thread about it, as a plea for better behavior.

I am routinely cautioned by system messages against cheating/botting and reminded to play fair.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:42 am 
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Posts: 446
RAIST5150 wrote:
dimitri wrote:
Julia wrote:
What you are describing is called "dumping" in economics. In many places IRL, it is illegal if it harms a market. People get away with it here, however, because Nas does not have any explicit market-competition rules. One could make the argument that dumping is actually injurious to gameplay and thus should be considered a rule violation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)

wrong. this is not dumping. at least read the lolwiki u referenced.


In a roundabout kind of way, it is on the right track though. The products are traded with other nations across the AH system... so they aren't staying in the home market.

Granted, the cookies example has only dropped to 1 gil under the vendor cost so far (which, in the case of the vendor in Bastok, is below that local market cost, and it is getting sold in other markets for less than that local market cost), so the basic concept could still kinda apply to some degree.

Regardless, people intentionally continually crashing markets like this is not only bad form, but potentially bad for the community as well--especially if it escalates.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:43 am 
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RAIST5150 wrote:
dimitri wrote:
Julia wrote:
What you are describing is called "dumping" in economics. In many places IRL, it is illegal if it harms a market. People get away with it here, however, because Nas does not have any explicit market-competition rules. One could make the argument that dumping is actually injurious to gameplay and thus should be considered a rule violation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)

wrong. this is not dumping. at least read the lolwiki u referenced.


In a roundabout kind of way, it is on the right track though. The products are traded with other nations across the AH system... so they aren't staying in the home market.

Granted, the cookies example has only dropped to 1 gil under the vendor cost so far (which, in the case of the vendor in Bastok, is below that local market cost, and it is getting sold in other markets for less than that local market cost), so the basic concept could still kinda apply to some degree.

Regardless, people intentionally continually crashing markets like this is not only bad form, but potentially bad for the community as well--especially if it escalates.


Nothing was done with Deadwing until very recently(and for reasons unrelated). He had done this exact thing for years on multiple items.

What we're saying is this is common practice in a lot of MMOs. Crash a price so others get out of the market, raise the price until someone gets the idea to enter your market, repeat.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:49 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:40 pm
Posts: 35
RAIST5150 wrote:
Mordikaiser wrote:
Please stop whining about this non issue.

FFXI is a game, and more than any crafting limitations or anything else the players that have more freedom to play inherently control more power over literally every aspect of game play. You know why cookies are cheap? Because players with more time than you, can stand to make a considerable amount of money on their time by undercutting you. It doesn't matter that their profit margins are non existent. So long as their profit is 1g or greater they have all the reason in the world to do it. Additionally, the fact that its not readily apparent as an optimal is irrelevant (though clearly it could be), because once again its a game and people derive enjoyment in whatever way they choose.

This won't ever change. It won't even change in a 7 item per character ecosystem. In fact, I'd argue that any more restrictive limitations on the auction house system will produce a worse outcome because it encourages degenerate player behavior like cheating and other things that compromise the integrity of the game. Especially because on retail, so long as your wallet was big enough you could own as many 16 character accounts as you wanted granting wealthy players like those with more time an inherent advantage. An option that doesn't exist on Nasomi any longer, and one that may very well create unintended consequences.

So either cut your losses and move on, quit, or find a better method for yourself. But don't whine. Its unbecoming and fairly childish.

Whining?

I made ONE thread about it, as a plea for better behavior.

I am routinely cautioned by system messages against cheating/botting and reminded to play fair.



You act like you're the only player policing auction behavior when I can name several who routinely do it that aren't you. What clearly has happened is you have worked your mentality into this perfect little box, and anything that doesn't conform to your perfect vision must be policed. Nobody needs to behave any better than the rules allow for, and last I checked, undercutting is not only a legitimate strategy but it's a perfectly rules legal thing to do. So regardless of your post count, it is in fact whining.

You're routinely cautioned by the system because people are not effectively deterred from their behavior that ruins the game for the rest of us. But like I said, people with more time than you or I carry more power to act that way.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:54 am 
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Unpopular opinion: the 7 item limit is an appropriate number

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:54 am 
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Aramiltaru wrote:
Unpopular opinion: the 7 item limit is an appropriate number

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:57 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:26 am
Posts: 133
Mordikaiser wrote:
RAIST5150 wrote:
Mordikaiser wrote:
Please stop whining about this non issue.

FFXI is a game, and more than any crafting limitations or anything else the players that have more freedom to play inherently control more power over literally every aspect of game play. You know why cookies are cheap? Because players with more time than you, can stand to make a considerable amount of money on their time by undercutting you. It doesn't matter that their profit margins are non existent. So long as their profit is 1g or greater they have all the reason in the world to do it. Additionally, the fact that its not readily apparent as an optimal is irrelevant (though clearly it could be), because once again its a game and people derive enjoyment in whatever way they choose.

This won't ever change. It won't even change in a 7 item per character ecosystem. In fact, I'd argue that any more restrictive limitations on the auction house system will produce a worse outcome because it encourages degenerate player behavior like cheating and other things that compromise the integrity of the game. Especially because on retail, so long as your wallet was big enough you could own as many 16 character accounts as you wanted granting wealthy players like those with more time an inherent advantage. An option that doesn't exist on Nasomi any longer, and one that may very well create unintended consequences.

So either cut your losses and move on, quit, or find a better method for yourself. But don't whine. Its unbecoming and fairly childish.

Whining?

I made ONE thread about it, as a plea for better behavior.

I am routinely cautioned by system messages against cheating/botting and reminded to play fair.


You act like you're the only player policing auction behavior when I can name several who routinely do it that aren't you. What clearly has happened is you have worked your mentality into this perfect little box, and anything that doesn't conform to your perfect vision must be policed. Nobody needs to behave any better than the rules allow for, and last I checked, undercutting is not only a legitimate strategy but it's a perfectly rules legal thing to do. So regardless of your post count, it is in fact whining.

You're routinely cautioned by the system because people are not effectively deterred from their behavior that ruins the game for the rest of us. But like I said, people with more time than you or I carry more power to act that way.



But... we will get the community we create. Remember the Division? <shudder>

Just because it may not technically be a violation, it can cause issues... if we as a community let it go unchecked, are we not complicit?

So, I am just another in a sea of voices calling out bad behavior? If it is THAT prevalent, perhaps it is evidence of a problem?

Should we not hope for better practices in the world in which we are helping to shape?


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