No, Petz, you will not scare me away from a thread because your opinion differs from mine. Removing the mobs is an entirely legitimate way to remove the adaman ore drop, and that's that.

It is clear that you're attempting to silence my opinion in this thread, and you're very aware that the thread you suggest I make will be filled with people yelling and screaming at me, which will quickly get the thread deleted.

Expected given the favoritism we've seen from you as a mod already.

Anyway, on to the topic...

Yes, it hurts to take things that are easy and benefit us away, but we shouldn't kick and scream every time this happens. We should expect things that do not work to get fixed, whether they benefit us or not. This is understandably unpopular, but it will happen someday anyway. So again I ask: why not now? When would be a better time for this camp to be removed?

When ToAU works? Sure. I agree entirely. But we can't argue here expecting for the camp to stick around forever.

_________________
Returning/Existing Player? Trouble logging in? Click here |~| New player Gil guide |~| More Troubleshooting

Taken from the half-baked merits section of your guide Nab:

?~75 - King Ranperre's Tomb Spartoi Warrior/Sorceror basement loop outside Vrtra room, brd rdm mnk x4 roaming party
Highly situational to be able to assemble that unique composition, not viable for most pickup merit groups.

?~75 - The Garden of Ru'Hmet Aw'Aern hallway with 6-8 aern, forget exact pos
Good merit party will kill 6-8 mobs in a matter of minutes and with a 16 minute respawn that isn't viable.

73?~75 - The Shrine of Ru'Avitau Aura/Decorative Weapon any of the 4 large rooms on the main map with door-monoliths
They give crappy XP to a full party.

?~75 - The Shrine of Ru'Avitau Aura Statue main map loop by H-9 (roaming party, will require bard or rdm to keep ahead of respawns), or F-10 by Ullikummi spawn
Only so-so XP for a full party and the Ulli room is occupied more often than not these days, so only the H-9 would be consistently available.

?~75 - Uleguerand Range Kindred cliffs prior to Jormungand (G-7?). extreme difficulty, madrigal was required on CoP era retail, but viable alternate camp
Terrible idea, what you want to use in UL is Scowlenkos up by Jorm, but most people won't want to go that far out. They are awesome with the right setup though.

?~75 Lufaise Meadows Tavnazian Ram/Abraxas don't remember exact location
They give crappy xp to a full party.

So that leaves us with birds and turtles. And TOAU merits but we won't go there. What else you got?

I didn't even write the merits section, yet it's clear that there will be tons of places to go if people bother to give data. Each of the suggestions on the merits section was some guy's memories of retail off the top of his head that he did 10 years ago. Imagine if people bothered to go and try new places and provide information.

You will see how quickly people find good merit spots if the easy, non-threatening, close mobs that shouldn't exist are removed.

Will you guys be upset if I said Dyna shouldn't give so much EXP either?

Come on, I know it'd make things harder - but it makes them right. Yes, it's be nice if we had ToAU to soak up the losses we would take if this camp and Dyna exp were removed, but we should expect for those to be removed regardless if ToAU works at the same time or not.

_________________
Returning/Existing Player? Trouble logging in? Click here |~| New player Gil guide |~| More Troubleshooting

So you gathered a bunch of merits data, didn't write the merits section, but have been working on it daily and promoting it as fact with enough confidence to suggest removing a particular camp you disagree with, all while said data is incomplete and/or just plain wrong? Okay.

The fact that there are many more exp locations through all level ranges tells me that there are more merit camps than people care to use.

Your argument that the camps listed there aren't as good as the turtle camp falls on it's face when you realize that there shouldn't BE a camp that's like the turtle camp to begin with.

There shouldn't be easy to kill mobs that give normal EXP and crazy drops. They don't use TP moves even. They're completely uncoded. You shouldn't expect a camp like this to exist, so a 1:1 replacement should't be what you're looking for when finding a replacement for it. Of course, what's the point of removing it if another identical camp exists?

Come on - I get it. You guys don't want a good thing to go away. It's alright to miss it, it's alright to wish it would never happen. But it will happen. Take it in stride and do your best - everyone will be in that same situation.

Mog house in the field, TH, etc.. no one enjoyed losing stuff, but it had to happen. It made a better game in the end. This will too.

_________________
Returning/Existing Player? Trouble logging in? Click here |~| New player Gil guide |~| More Troubleshooting

My argument is not that the camps you suggest aren't as good as the turtle camp, my argument is the camps you suggest you're either wrong about or obviously haven't tried, otherwise you wouldn't be hawking them as great camps. I say this because I actually have tried every single one of those camps and they are by-and-large not viable for decent merits, unless you have REALLY low standards for xp/hour. The only decent, no-strings-attached, in-era merit camp for melees currently is birds; yes there are some inferior alternatives, but good luck convincing people to settle for less, that always goes well.

I never called them great camps. I specifically said that they aren't comparable to turtles - but that's how it should be.

Your standards shouldn't be "the best every time no matter what". That's why KRT is such a mess sometimes. Players should not expect to be able to exp at the best camp every time they exp.

_________________
Returning/Existing Player? Trouble logging in? Click here |~| New player Gil guide |~| More Troubleshooting

You're seriously going to advocate settling for mediocrity in the name of an era that will NEVER actually perfectly exist here, really? Fine, you go ahead and live alone in that fantasy, I'm done with this circle conversation. Honestly though, I have to hand it to you, you've actually managed to make me agree with TopShelf about something, in that you really should stick to tech support and stop the Holier than Thou routine based solely on your opinion of how the server should be. Good night.

Terrible idea from OP imo.

Couldn't care less about the turtles (though it would only leave birds as viable merits) but removing the adaman ore will just make the server even more lopsided, blacksmiths before and blacksmiths after adaman ore removal.
On top of that, thanks to the crappy crafting changes, some prices have already sky-rocketted, look at current NQ hauby price, now compute the NQ cursed adaberk price with the resulting new adaman ore price from this change... no point camping DA for an E.body anymore for most people when it costs 10 mil to uncurse.

Naimah: tell me why it should be removed in the future instead of now? You can't say "it should never be removed".

And why are the crafting changes crappy?

It sounds like no one seems to want things to work properly, they just want to benefit from broken stuff. Why? Don't you guys have any shame?

Rather than deny the future, be part of helping others deal with it. Find the camps that they can use. Provide the materials that are harder to get. Craft even when you don't make as much of a profit because you HQ less. Be part of the solution rather than talk about the problems as if they will stop these changes from occurring.

How many significant changes have occurred that we've dealt? We're getting closer and closer to the retail game, in more ways than one. You have to take the good with the 'bad'.

_________________
Returning/Existing Player? Trouble logging in? Click here |~| New player Gil guide |~| More Troubleshooting