I'm trying to help you guys build an argument you can actually show to nas instead of just complaining.

Do you want it to change or do you want to just complain? What has worked in the past: showing nas he's wrong, or telling him he is? Think about the claim system fix.

I don't have to prove they're right, if you want to change them, you need to prove they're wrong.

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Sure, let me go hop on retail era and go get those numbers for you.

Edit: Weird, seems like it isn't 2006 anymore.

No one needs your help building an argument for Nasomi. You don't belong on a thread that you have no experience with.

I'm just glad I was able to read through this thread and know I'm not alone ~

This isn’t a great look. Not having synth level data from 12 years ago =\= Not having anything to compare it to.

We aren’t even remotely similar to crafting in this era for skill-ups. It’s not even in the same realm. It’s why people have stopped leveling crafting as much. You’d have to be an idiot to try and skill right now. We have convinced players, we just haven’t convinced you.

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You can find old data if you try to

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Sounds like you know where to look then. Quit trolling people that are frustrated with something broken.

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I'll edit this post with all the data that appears to have been consciously recorded from retail that I can find.

1: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... =25&p=1#12
0.0 skillups in 18 synths at 64

2: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... =25&p=2#37
1.0 skillups in 23 synths for 99-100

3: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... =25&p=3#57
0.7 skillups in 11 synths at 99

4: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... =25&p=4#82
1.6 skillups in 36 synths at 30 or below

5: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... 24234637#1
1.0 skillups in 48 synths at 82

6: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... 78601455#1
0.0 skillups in 7 synths at 67 or below

7: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... 03403938#4
0.2 skillups in 400 desynths at 99 or below (we might be onto something here)

8: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... 03403938#8
0.0 skillups in 30 desynths at unknown level

9: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... 18416731#4
8.2 skillups in 198 synths at 49

10: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... 12496044#8
2.0 skillups in 96 synths at 97

11: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... =25&p=1#20
3.0 skillups in 48 synths at 97

12: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... 83321487#1
0.3 skillups in 22 synths at 50

13: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... 83321487#2
1.0 skillups in 60 synths at 99

14: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... 22108679#8
0.9 skillups in 76 synths at 99

15: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... 22108679#5
0.1 skillups in 78 synths at 99

16: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... 22108679#8
0.6 skillups in 13 synths at 98

these 16 random samples, all from 2006 or earlier, resulted in 20.4 total skillups on synths (no desynths included), over a total of 734 synths, or almost exactly 36 synths per 1.0 skillup on average.

Given that many of the data collected above was from players expressing their high skillgains, take a 36/1.0 as a maximum lucky value you should expect. The sample sizes are so small that each one individually could represent total opposites in speed.

Additionally, it seems as if our skillup rate on desynths is much higher than retail's

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You do that.

You’re arguing with a ton of people that spend most of their time crafting on retail, that aren’t saying it seems like crafting is a little bit off. They’re saying it’s substantially off. That it’s not even in the same universe as era similar.

For your hard numbers, I started crafting Rainbow Thread at lvl 71.6 CC, and it is a 78 synth.

I am now 73.6, and I have amassed 28 stacks of rainbow thread.

Edit: And to pre-empt your question of how I could possibly know that isn’t right, without hard numbers from back then.. my answer is: because im not an idiot.

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Thank you everyone for chiming in on this discussion and sharing numbers. It's unfortunate that it's derailed into direction/day/moon stuff. I've been looking into this for a little bit now and my own conclusions are that skill-ups are more difficult than retail by a significant margin. My own sample size is around 225-250 synths, which is fair but not ideal. Unfortunately I'm not testing in a vacuum so I don't have unlimited resources to expend for the sake of testing this. I've spoken with a good amount of you, however, who have reported numbers that are not dissimilar to mine.

It's difficult to compare to retail. It was a very long time ago and information is sparse. That being said, I've gone through several boards, blogs and websites with the sole purpose of seeing how many crafts it took people to hit 98-100 synthing with either a 1-2 or 3-5 level gap. It would seem that the reported skill-up rate back then was around 25-30%. My current numbers would put Nasomi closer to 10%.

I also want to acknowledge the poster that spoke about the 1-2 level gap, as I've spoken about this with many people as well. Synthing at 1-2 level gap from cap post 60 is straight up an abomination.

As for Nabutso, I can appreciate your desire to want to approach Nasomi with numbers rather than conjecture. I opened this thread with numbers, and some people have also added their own. I can understand being dismissive of the direction/day/moon crowd, but I wouldn't be so quick to disregard the skill-up rate, particularly when it's coming from people who are providing actual numbers.

Here's the data from FFXIDB. It collected data on crafting for over a year, from 2006 into 2007. Here is the math done on the DB:

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/120352-CraftyMath


Easy Read:

Anyway, we're going to have to nuke the 7M synth database that we've built up in the last year. Before we do that, if I very tightly constrain my queries then I can get some very basic information out of it:

Tier -1 HQ rate: 0.06% ( 16 / 24127 )
Tier 0 HQ rate: 1.8% +/- 0.3% ( 144 / 8073 ) -- 95% confidence interval is likely underestimated because it's too close to a bound.
Tier 1 HQ rate: 6.6% +/- 0.5% ( 660 / 9951 )
Tier 2 HQ rate: 28.5% +/- 0.8% ( 3659 / 12865 )
Tier 3 HQ rate: 50.6% +/- 0.7% ( 8835 / 17462 )


Data:

Format is:
Conservative Tier : NQ, HQ1, HQ2, HQ3
The Tier estimation is "conservative" because I'm always assuming that any synthesis support buff present is Advanced and that any Furniture in the MH is giving its crafting moghancement. Thus I should be overestimating skill level rather than underestimating, which should bias the HQ rate estimates downwards. .... or I'd like to pretend that it matters, but in practice I ran the numbers with the opposite assumptions (furniture not active and NQ support) and it made almost no difference. Still, those are the qualifiers.

Silent Oil (Slime Oil recipe)
Tier -1: 4827, 3, 0, 0, 0
Tier  0: 436, 3, 0, 0, 0
Tier  1: 563, 32, 8, 0, 0
Tier  2: 2429, 603, 146, 53
Tier  3: 5338, 4074, 1022, 363

Holy Water (no Trit recipe)
Tier -1: 19279, 12, 0, 1
Tier  0: 7473, 138, 3, 0
Tier  1: 7889, 396, 151, 0
Tier  2: 5068, 1634, 419, 152
Tier  3: 2728, 2144, 519, 189

Holy Water (Trit recipe)
Tier -1: 5, 0, 0, 0
Tier  0: 20, 0, 0, 0
Tier  1: 839, 57, 15, 1
Tier  2: 1709, 493, 120, 49
Tier  3: 561, 395, 90, 39

As if this wasn't long enough of a post, here is what was reported by a friend who was T3 crafting:
Tier 3: 90/339 = ~26.5%, nearly half of what 2006-2007 reflected.

Please feel free to add more data below this line, but I think the point has been proven.

Shazam: my results differ. I have nearly a 50% rate at tier 3 HQ here, even after the change. Are you sure he isn't in T2? What is he synthing and what level is he? I haven't heard of anyone complaining about T3 HQ rate post-patch. I had data for that in a now-deleted thread.

Not one person here thinks that tier 3 shouldn't be 50%. Including nas.

I'll go do a lot more T3 synths if you really want. I'll edit this post with the data.

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