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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:35 am
Posts: 32
Oh damn, I decided to check on this today and it's gained another 100, lol. Honestly wasn't expecting this many people to sign.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:51 pm 
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Posts: 17
Hello all. Just wanted to say that I rewrote the petition today and removed a ton of the long winded text. It's currently heading towards 900 signatures.

A big heartfelt thank you for any support and shares. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:33 am 
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Posts: 753
I don't think it's possible for them to reverse the game to make legacy servers.... Unless I missed something.... The game has to use the most recent updates to be considered "safe" to play, and they've worked years worth of updates around those standards, that rely on the client updates to even function. I don't think the cloent can be just switched back to an era we like without breaking like.... everything.... Then they would have to rebuild everything over and over for each expansion.... More work than it would be worth financially speaking.... Probably why the contracted nexon to build a reboot using unreal engine, that may be the closest thing to official "Legacy" servers as we'll ever see. Thank goodness for nasomi, keeping the dream alive is no small task. /salute

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:38 pm
Posts: 216
The_Carrot wrote:
I don't think it's possible for them to reverse the game to make legacy servers.... Unless I missed something.... The game has to use the most recent updates to be considered "safe" to play, and they've worked years worth of updates around those standards, that rely on the client updates to even function. I don't think the cloent can be just switched back to an era we like without breaking like.... everything.... Then they would have to rebuild everything over and over for each expansion.... More work than it would be worth financially speaking.... Probably why the contracted nexon to build a reboot using unreal engine, that may be the closest thing to official "Legacy" servers as we'll ever see. Thank goodness for nasomi, keeping the dream alive is no small task. /salute

It's possible since Nasomi works (and the game client itself is quite new), so the server controls most of the aspects. A theoretical retail classic server is still likely to use the most recent version of the game client. The only thing that they may do that Nasomi can't is to tweak the client to not display out of era NPCs / stuff (that doesn't do anything anyway) when connected to the legacy server, but still, adapting the most recent version to a classic server makes a lot more sense than basing it on a game client from 2005, that may not even work on a modern OS.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:12 pm
Posts: 753
Hey if they can make it happen, I'm all in for it. Wish they would.... Wish they would've from the start, I'd never have quit. Can put me down for the petition, hopefully it moves in a good direction.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Posts: 17
Do you know of any MMOs who are using two separate clients/servers for legacy and current? Cause all of the ones I've played on only use the current client/server code and add additional code for legacy changes. Meaning not having copies of old client/server versions is largely irrelevant (not saying it couldn't be helpful though).

Here's an example of the code DarkStar Project uses for the HomePoint Teleport System. It all starts with this:

HOMEPOINT_TELEPORT = 0; -- Enables the homepoint teleport system

In code, "0" is often used as "false", and "1" is often used as "true." So in this case, the homepoint teleport system is false, or disabled. The -- denotes a "comment" (different programming languages use different characters for comments, such as //, /*, (*, etc). Comments are what programmers (should) use to explain their code. Yes, even professional programmers who deal with a game's code for a living on a daily basis want the code to be full of comments. It helps when debugging, searching for particular lines of code, and keeping things neat and organized. It also helps other developers understand the code much quicker. Often times comments are also used for server/emulator specific changes. Sometimes code even has loads of unused/disabled code within it. As an example (this is an assumption), Nasomi probably has both the old claim system and the new claim system in the code. The old claim system is "commented out" (using comments to disable the code). You don't want to simply delete your old code, as you might decide to use it again. It can also be stored as a backup instead of commented out. There are probably comments that also help separate and label the two systems, like --OLD CLAIM SYSTEM and --NEW CLAIM SYSTEM. All of this is subjective and each programmer is different - and there are normally multiple ways to develop a single feature.

Moving on, here's the rest of the homepoint teleport code:
https://pastebin.com/0SuJzNtK
(There's also more to the code that determines the location of each homepoint and the exact location that you are teleported to when you use a homepoint teleport.) This code shows what happens when HOMEPOINT_TELEPORT = 0; is set to 1 instead of 0. You can also see the -- comments explaining a bit of what's happening.

This is just an example of a feature that operates differently on different servers, and how those differences actually reside within the same server code. The point being, there's not much use for old client/server versions except to maybe find era accurate data and numbers, but much of the time you can't simply copy and paste old code and it magically work with newer code. It generally needs to be rewritten, which is what MMO companies apparently do for their legacy servers.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:38 pm
Posts: 216
OmegaFFXI wrote:
Do you know of any MMOs who are using two separate clients/servers for legacy and current? Cause all of the ones I've played on only use the current client/server code and add additional code for legacy changes. Meaning not having copies of old client/server versions is largely irrelevant (not saying it couldn't be helpful though).

Here's an example of the code DarkStar Project uses for the HomePoint Teleport System. It all starts with this:

HOMEPOINT_TELEPORT = 0; -- Enables the homepoint teleport system

In code, "0" is often used as "false", and "1" is often used as "true." So in this case, the homepoint teleport system is false, or disabled. The -- denotes a "comment" (different programming languages use different characters for comments, such as //, /*, (*, etc). Comments are what programmers (should) use to explain their code. Yes, even professional programmers who deal with a game's code for a living on a daily basis want the code to be full of comments. It helps when debugging, searching for particular lines of code, and keeping things neat and organized. It also helps other developers understand the code much quicker. Often times comments are also used for server/emulator specific changes. Sometimes code even has loads of unused/disabled code within it. As an example (this is an assumption), Nasomi probably has both the old claim system and the new claim system in the code. The old claim system is "commented out" (using comments to disable the code). You don't want to simply delete your old code, as you might decide to use it again. It can also be stored as a backup instead of commented out. There are probably comments that also help separate and label the two systems, like --OLD CLAIM SYSTEM and --NEW CLAIM SYSTEM. All of this is subjective and each programmer is different - and there are normally multiple ways to develop a single feature.

Moving on, here's the rest of the homepoint teleport code:
https://pastebin.com/0SuJzNtK
(There's also more to the code that determines the location of each homepoint and the exact location that you are teleported to when you use a homepoint teleport.) This code shows what happens when HOMEPOINT_TELEPORT = 0; is set to 1 instead of 0. You can also see the -- comments explaining a bit of what's happening.

This is just an example of a feature that operates differently on different servers, and how those differences actually reside within the same server code. The point being, there's not much use for old client/server versions except to maybe find era accurate data and numbers, but much of the time you can't simply copy and paste old code and it magically work with newer code. It generally needs to be rewritten, which is what MMO companies apparently do for their legacy servers.

Actually this is one case where an official classic server will lead to a minor change in the client as well - note that when you check a home point on Nasomi or any other classic server you still have the "home point teleport" option - that's because it's hard coded in the client. Only when you click it the server prints that error message and you don't have any home points to teleport to (only cancel). I assume that, since S-E (hopefully still) have the client source code they'll modify it a little bit so it recognizes that it's connected to a legacy server and removes the option altogether. Still minor tweaks to a recent versions as you say are way easier than fixing all issues of a really outdated version. I completely agree - there's no way that we'll ever be using a game client from 2005 and there's absolutely no reason to.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:37 pm
Posts: 60
Sorry to burst your bubble but your Final Fantasy XI remake is that mobile game that SE has been putting all their time and money and effort in. Their not going to make a old school server for just like 1k players if that even.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:38 pm
Posts: 216
Ariel wrote:
Sorry to burst your bubble but your Final Fantasy XI remake is that mobile game that SE has been putting all their time and money and effort in. Their not going to make a old school server for just like 1k players if that even.

I really doubt that people will actually play a PTW version of FFXI.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:51 pm
Posts: 208
Nightcoder wrote:
Ariel wrote:
Sorry to burst your bubble but your Final Fantasy XI remake is that mobile game that SE has been putting all their time and money and effort in. Their not going to make a old school server for just like 1k players if that even.

I really doubt that people will actually play a PTW version of FFXI.


You're very wrong on that one.

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