Renavi wrote:
Therin wrote:
I would argue that XIV is far more restrictive than XI. At least it was when I played up until Alexander or so
In XIV you needed, as you said, 8 party members of which 1-2 were tanks, 2 were healers, and 4-5 were DPS. You couldn't even clear the progression content without an even more limited optimal combination within those 8 players.
In XI, you can kill anything short of a handful of mobs with between 6 and 18 people. Anything that requires more than 5 or 6 people is because there's a rage timer or something like that. Job wise you can have RDM tanks, SAM tanks, DRK tanks, you can do melee damage, BLM damage, SMN damage, etc. There is so much more versatility in FFXI.
Some jobs in XI are actual trash at most endgame encounters, or need very specific setups just to use, in XIV, you can use any set of tanks/dps/healers and still clear the fights. You can use between 6-18 people here ya, but the less people you bring will make it so you're forced into strict setups that can actually work. Even with 18 people some jobs aren't going to ever see certain endgame encounters on XI. That's just how the games are. XI is much more strict in what is actually useful or even possible to clear fights with. Just because some jobs can fill multiple roles on XI doesn't mean it isn't any less restrictive on what jobs are still able to be used.
Unless it has changed recently (as I stopped playing XIV), there were trash jobs in XIV too. For example progression teams didn't really use WAR or DRG for Second Coil until both of those jobs had already gotten some loot from it. MNK DPS was just too superior. You also never saw teams taking multiples in -- a two BRD team wouldn't clear the DPS checks in Turn 4 and Turn 8 during progression phases, and you could only really use those jobs once they had gotten sufficiently well geared. FFXIV had a lot of these DPS checks in the game where if you didn't have very skilled melee in extremely good gear, you simply couldn't do the content in time.
The only really shitty endgame jobs in FFXI are BST and MNK (and I guess PUP though it's so incomplete on Nasomi it's hard to really even mention it), and once Salvage comes out everyone will love MNKs again. Everything else has some use. PLD and NIN can tank, any melee is useful for skillchaining and some damage, even some of the weaker ones have useful abilities like THF's Treasure Hunter, DRG's Angon and WAR's Tomahawk/Full Break (though WAR isn't really weak, it's just not as good as DRK and SAM). All mage types are good (WHM, RDM, BLM and SMN) and all support jobs are good and can even be used together (BRD and COR). BLU is even good here even though it's FAR weaker than it was in retail, but my point in all of this is that there are no fights in FFXI that REQUIRE you to have a specific setup.
As for BST, it was always intended to be an CC/add control job when in groups or a solo job alone. Just because we don't use it that way doesn't mean it never had a place. For example, you could bring BSTs to Tiamat, Jorm or Aspid and have them handle two adds at once (charming one and fighting another). That could be useful in retail if you bothered to try it.