Guys this is ridiculous, nasomi knows the truth about the crafting system(obviously he runs this server) and all the info
to compare to retail is readily available (like nabutso keeps saying right?) so, there is no need for anyone to give him numbers nor data,
the players simply need to express there concern about the system and its changes. There is one thing for 100% sure, the crit fails have increased
dramatically(nobody can refute that). So if the vast majority of the players all say the same thing, an adjustment could/should be made IF they are
correct. Obviously if its this far off from retail, and everyone wants a more sensible skill up rate/less crit fail at the very least(maybe not change hq rate)
the fact is nasomi knows if this is right or not. he has ALl the information, why would anybody have to give him the data or numbers he already has?
The crafting system is currently inaccessible to new players or people who arent full of gil atm, in the sense that there is a insane amount of crafts needed for skill ups
now. Im telling you before this crafting change i was getting good skill ups from leathercraft, completely normal and decent skill ups.
Anyway hopefully more and more people will keep saying what they think till nasomi, the only one who really knows the truth, makes a change.
/rant over

Nabutso, have you even read the links that you provided? Because the numbers you derived from them are pretty wrong. Here, let me go through each of them 1 by 1 again for you



Correct



False, that's 1.0 LEVEL in 23 synths for 99-100

Bonus comments:
'I'm getting approx 50% skill up with just 2-5 synths and 24 hour waits.
When I went back to level it, I ended up gaining an entire level in like 10 synths
I have not recorded the exact results, but I do know that somewhere around 13-16 attempts (spread out over about 1.5-2 weeks) has yielded 7 .1 skillups. 0.7 skill/16 synths.



Correct. Also note, from the thread:

My skill-up rate is about 1/3.
I got 7 levels of 90+ LC through 50+% skillups.
I typically got .2 - .4 skillups each session of 5 - 8 synths.



Correct



1.0 level in 48 synths



This says nothing, 7 synths are not notable.



Desynth success rate is also higher on Nasomi. It was excruciating on retail without moghancement.



9.2 levels in 198 synths. Correct. Additional:

you will lose money but with support on i was almost getting .1-.2 every synth
It took me 1 and a half stacks of Scorp arrowheads from 49-59 That's approximately 10 levels in 200 synths.



3.0 levels in 47 synths, correct.



Correct. Additional:

It took me almost 60 synths to get from 99->100.
pre 50: got from .8 to 1.4 on a single stack of materials (most times 1.0)
post 50: got from .1 to .6 on a stack of materials (most times .3)
I remember from 90-05 i was getting about .5 skillups per stack



You really tunnel visioned on that one, huh? How about, in the same thread:

the first .9 went pretty much to schedule .3-.4 per stack of material
Crafting onry on Full moon 90+
I averaged a skill up every 3 synths
I remember that stage in Alchemy ... 98.6 -> 99.2 took 13 synths. 0.6 skill /13 synths


Am I missing something here? The sources you provided only reinforce my point. I'd cut my leg off for the skill-up rates reported in these threads compared to what I've been experiencing here. These threads show people getting levels in 25-30 synths. The largest sample size provided by these threads was 8 levels in 198 synths, complemented by another posted who said it took around a stack and a half of arrowheads for TEN levels from 49-59 (about 200 synths).

Contrast that with my findings of 1.3 levels per 130-140 synths. Again, I feel like you're not grasping this. That's around one level per STACK OF CLUSTERS.

I'm not sure how you can look at the information you provided and not obviously agree with me. The difference between what I and others are reporting with the links that you provided is astounding, and quite clearly not just simple variance.

When I started this thread a few days ago I was dubious about my hypothesis. Now I'm all but certain. What do I have to do to get you to agree with me, Nabutso? Is it another 130 synths? Because I'll throw my money down the well just to prove a point. I can understand being hesitant to call something broken, but not in the face of numbers. To put this to you differently, it has now cost me more to take clothcraft from 80-85 at 10,000 gil per 12 synths, than it did to level 70-76 pre-crafting change at 45,000 gil per 12 synths. The numbers aren't just a little off, they're way off.

To everyone else responding about direction/day/moon and hq rates, I encourage you to make your own thread as to keep this from derailing.

The reason people are stuck on direction/day/moon is because it was coded on dsp to work that way. Nas says he changed it to have no effect. Nas has done a lot of things only to have his code accidentally revert. Maybe he needs to reconfirm his code.

My theory? We don't. Nabutso just likes to make people question their sanity as a sport.

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As with another thread about this my point will stay the same. He does not have to fix both crit fail rate or the skill up rate. Fix one or the other and I am sure crafting would be worth it again. As it sits, I have now spent just under 4 million gil to go 1.7 levels on gold ingots. 128 stacks of gold beastcoins which in a perfect world would make 43 stacks of ingots. I have sitting in my MH right now 12 stacks of ingots....That means I lost 31 stacks of materials....Tell me this is right. I am currently 2 levels below cap on it. I have stopped synthing because I cannot afford it. That is also 30.11 synths per skillup. So either up the skillup rate so it's more profitable....Or lower the break rate (I rather see this) to make it more profitable. You do not have to do both....but do at least one!

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PM 3-5, Sandy 6-1, ZM 4-1

I think crafting is working as intended by Nas currently. Whether or not they are retail accurate is another question.

The changes seem geared less to becoming retail accurate and more to driving the economy. i.e. increasing the break rates so more materials are needed/bought and decreasing skill up rates for the same outcome.

It is all the more noticeable due to the (slightly) more favourable conditions we had previously been removed. So not only do you have lower skill-up rates compared to retail coupled with a much higher break likelihood, our ability to shift the percentages in our favour has completely gone. This also means that when the RNG gods are against you rates seem ridiculous. Even on retail skill-up rates you could go 20 to 30 synths without a skill-up just by being unlucky.

I'm only 15 smithing and 22 cooking on Nasomi but will track my success with both over the next few weeks. From retail, skill-up rate should be between 20 and 30% (closer to 30 pre 60, 20 after). It would be better for someone 60+ to track they're rates in my view as if it is retail accurate, post 60 there should be no 0.2's which can skew how fast you level if you get really lucky.

I'll also track break rates. TBH, despite being 100 cooking in retail I can't recall what to expect here to directly compare. But just this fact to me suggests they were negligible, and when I did fail it wasn't for a loss of all materials otherwise I'd have stronger feelings/memories about the experience!

Question for the more experienced crafters out there - on retail I could swear I still got skill-ups if I was below the recipe cap on base skill, but over on support (advanced or normal). So for a 20 cap recipe, I'm level 17 and have advanced support. For the purpose of the skill-up calculation, I'd be 17 and get good skill-ups, but for the success rate I'd be at the recipe level to minimise breaks. On Nasomi, I've never been able to get a skill-up if I'm above the cap using support. Is this your experience and does this hold true for skill-up gear as well?

Stimulating the economy by making crafters buy more mats is all good in all, except that it ruins leveling up crafting. Literally everything thus far that I have crafted in alchemy, even if I had a 100% success rate, I would be losing money. It takes 12k worth of mats to make a stack of beeswax that sells for 11k, which is still going down. I am not stimulating the economy by buying materials, instead I spend my time farming them because I ran out of gil days ago. I have probably spent close to 50k worth of mats and about 10 hrs of farming mats, to get to 16.8 in alchemy and have made about 22k from what I have sold so far.

In my experience retail was the same way. Could only profit or break-even with HQs, NQing was all at a loss, and skilling was just a gil drain.

He wont change anything. He wants his content to take longer than its supposed to because of how limited the content is here. You will not convince him to change anything. It taking way too long is music to his ears.

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Jesus christ it's like this dude doesn't read any of my posts in full.


Yes, I have.


You are completely misunderstanding. What do you think 1.0 "skillups" means? That IS 1 LEVEL.


No concrete numbers = no concrete data.


No concrete numbers = no concrete data.


1 level IS 1.0 SKILLUPS.


All numbers are worth noting whether they are good or bad or there are many or there are very few, as long as all of them are taken into account.


What's 57-49? It isn't 9.2.


No concrete numbers = no concrete data.


No concrete numbers = no concrete data.


Add up his numbers. You literally ignored his fails he mentioned here and only want to look at his 'successful' runs.

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