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 Post subject: I'm done.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:31 pm
Posts: 75
Thanks for everything, Nasomi but after this gil fiasco, I'm done. Consider this my retirement from this game. I didn't work my ass off to have my legit earnings taken from me that I have been building on for over 2 years now. Not only did I lose my gil but I lost the items that I sold for that gil. Now people are essentially walking around with free items while I get nothing. I don't know how you thought this was a good idea but whatever. Your server and your call.

To those of you who used the exploits, thanks for ruining the game for everyone else. You knew what you were doing was wrong and yet you did it anyways. You're the reason this server isn't bigger than what it is already. I don't blame people for not wanting to play here when people like you are a part of the community and remove any joy or fun from the game.

To everyone else, it has been fun. I will miss you guys and I'll miss this game but I can't do it again. I tried telling people this was going to happen if they kept doing it and now it has happened and people like myself are screwed out of our time and hard work. I'm not going to sit here and watch it happen a third time. I can't.

Good bye,
Oddin


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 Post subject: Re: I'm done.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:25 pm
Posts: 60
I didn't interact with you much in the short time I've been here but I feel that you're leaving is a huge loss for the server community. I can't count how many times I had a question and someone said "Ask Oddin when he logs in, he'll know."

I feel you, I hadn't amassed much yet but I had carved out a niche and felt like I was able to get ahead. The economy only really absolutely sucked for the people who had just started and were below lvl 30. This new economy isn't going to be significantly different for them. Too many items used by low levels have price floors that are set by NPC sale prices. I hope maybe in a few months you can come back and re-evaluate things, cause I still feel like this server is worth it.

Though the people who abused things absolutely should have their accounts deleted and their names called out.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm done.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:51 pm
Posts: 79
I was wondering why I hadn't seen you on since the great gilmageddeon of 2016.

Everyone who wasn't duping/ exploiting and had been slowly building up their wealth got equally screwed. I'm sure you lost substantially more than I did, but hey, it's just a game. I was pretty raw about it at first, too.

Staying positive, at least now we'll see some reasonably priced goldsmithing wares ;)

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 Post subject: Re: I'm done.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:31 pm
Posts: 75
Varg wrote:
I was wondering why I hadn't seen you on since the great gilmageddeon of 2016.

Everyone who wasn't duping/ exploiting and had been slowly building up their wealth got equally screwed. I'm sure you lost substantially more than I did, but hey, it's just a game. I was pretty raw about it at first, too.

Staying positive, at least now we'll see some reasonably priced goldsmithing wares ;)


Well I just found out about it today. Nothing like updating for a few hours and then logging in and noticing you're missing 35M+ across your accounts for reasons beyond your control.

Not everyone was equally screwed. Not even close. I'm not going to belittle other people's efforts but I've been here for over 2 years and amassed a small fortune in that time. Losing 35M+ gil that you earned through crafting and selling items is not something I can just get over. I wish I could have your positive attitude towards this situation but I've done this song and dance once before on this server. It wasn't as bad for me then as it is now but it proves that this community has people that don't seem to understand that their actions have an effect on everyone, not just themselves. I've tried telling people about this but it went largely unnoticed and/or ignored. Now that it has happened on a grander scale, people will hopefully understand how their actions affect others. Too little, too late for me though.

rori wrote:
I didn't interact with you much in the short time I've been here but I feel that you're leaving is a huge loss for the server community. I can't count how many times I had a question and someone said "Ask Oddin when he logs in, he'll know."

I feel you, I hadn't amassed much yet but I had carved out a niche and felt like I was able to get ahead. The economy only really absolutely sucked for the people who had just started and were below lvl 30. This new economy isn't going to be significantly different for them. Too many items used by low levels have price floors that are set by NPC sale prices. I hope maybe in a few months you can come back and re-evaluate things, cause I still feel like this server is worth it.

Though the people who abused things absolutely should have their accounts deleted and their names called out.


Don't look for me to ever return. I had great plans for myself and this game. I want to continue playing but I'm not going to waste my time because other people won't take responsibility for their actions. And why would they? This whole situation shows that you can still get away with things on this server and screw other people over in the process.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm done.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:25 pm
Posts: 182
Hey Oddin,

We don't come across one another as much as before, but I did want to say that I am going to miss what you brought to the server. You are a real class act during every interaction I read over GrindHouse and then again in MogHouse chat.

I also wanted to thank you for taking the time to come help Llo and I what seems like forever ago. I'm going to think about you every time I use a WS macro that includes an AJ, or see someone that runs by me wearing one.

_________________
Petz

:!: Please note that if your posts or responses are deleted on the forums, chances are it was inappropriate, inflammatory, or someone else was defamed.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm done.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:44 pm
Posts: 322
Hi Oddin. I think you may not understand what has actually happened.

Initially, you amassed a small(large) fortune from working hard to create things and sell to players. Players that either had exploited gil, or acquired exploited gil from other people who had exploited gil. Had these people not done this, the gil would have never existed for you to acquire to begin with. That gil made it's way so far into every person in the population, that it would be impossible to truely remove all of it.

Since there was absolutely no way to remove the exact gil duplicated, or even a way to determine what gil was duplicated, the only way I could come up with that didn't completely break the system was to remove a large portion of the gil, while keeping a players "effective" gil the same, in relation to other players. If you had 50 million gil, and muffin had 10 million gil, you had 5 times the gil of muffin. With a 75% reduction, you would end up with 12.5 million gil, while muffin would have 2.5 million gil. You would still have effectively 5 times the gil of muffin, and 100 times the gil of most other players.

What was done was a 75% reduction of everyone, so everyone's effective gil is the same when compared to each other. That should bring all private purchase prices down considerably and make them obtainable for most players who are starting from 0. The prices were massively inflated because there was so much gil in circulation. To bring those prices down to obtainable levels for newer players, and to have a chance at a real economy that wasn't massively inflated, something needed to be done.

For months I tried to determine a way to do it, cap everyone over a million at a million, reduce everyone over 5 million by 50%, etc. However every one of those still favored someone and was not equal across the board. A 75% reduction across the board has an equal effect on everyone.

I know, you had a lot of gil. But your gil initially came from illegitimate means. 1.8 billion gil among 500 or so players, and 1.5 billion of that in the top 50, it was the fairest way I could determine to make prices manageable. If you decide to leave, I'm sorry to hear it. But I worked very hard to come up with this method and put a great amount of thought into it. While you only have 12.5 mil, the value of gil has gone up 4 fold. It was the best I could do.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm done.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:55 am
Posts: 60
Respect man, see you on the other side.

Can't say I can read this with ease.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm done.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:31 pm
Posts: 75
nasomi wrote:
Hi Oddin. I think you may not understand what has actually happened.

Initially, you amassed a small(large) fortune from working hard to create things and sell to players. Players that either had exploited gil, or acquired exploited gil from other people who had exploited gil. Had these people not done this, the gil would have never existed for you to acquire to begin with. That gil made it's way so far into every person in the population, that it would be impossible to truely remove all of it.

Since there was absolutely no way to remove the exact gil duplicated, or even a way to determine what gil was duplicated, the only way I could come up with that didn't completely break the system was to remove a large portion of the gil, while keeping a players "effective" gil the same, in relation to other players. If you had 50 million gil, and muffin had 10 million gil, you had 5 times the gil of muffin. With a 75% reduction, you would end up with 12.5 million gil, while muffin would have 2.5 million gil. You would still have effectively 5 times the gil of muffin, and 100 times the gil of most other players.

What was done was a 75% reduction of everyone, so everyone's effective gil is the same when compared to each other. That should bring all private purchase prices down considerably and make them obtainable for most players who are starting from 0. The prices were massively inflated because there was so much gil in circulation. To bring those prices down to obtainable levels for newer players, and to have a chance at a real economy that wasn't massively inflated, something needed to be done.

For months I tried to determine a way to do it, cap everyone over a million at a million, reduce everyone over 5 million by 50%, etc. However every one of those still favored someone and was not equal across the board. A 75% reduction across the board has an equal effect on everyone.

I know, you had a lot of gil. But your gil initially came from illegitimate means. 1.8 billion gil among 500 or so players, and 1.5 billion of that in the top 50, it was the fairest way I could determine to make prices manageable. If you decide to leave, I'm sorry to hear it. But I worked very hard to come up with this method and put a great amount of thought into it. While you only have 12.5 mil, the value of gil has gone up 4 fold. It was the best I could do.


I absolutely understand what has happened here. I know why you did it. What I don't understand is how you think this is fair at all. For starters, you don't get to dictate what prices are or what gil is worth. That's up to the playerbase to determine. So you saying my gil is now worth 4x as much is a load of crap. That's up to the player to determine what item is worth what price and is always subject to change. Just because you take a billion gil out of the system doesn't mean people aren't going to want the same amount of gil for certain items.

You say my items would never have sold if the money wasn't there. Fine, however they did sell and now I've not only lost the gil but I've lost the items. The buyers are now better off than I am because they have tangible items and I have nothing. Not only that but before any of this crap started happening, I was up to 23~24M before I started selling my higher gil items. Now I'm down to 12M~. So not only did I lose all the gil I made in the past few months, I lost half the gil I had earned before the exploiters ever came around. Where's the balance there?

I have been slowly building my fortune for 2 years and then it gets ripped out from under me. Why was this allowed to happen? I know this matter has been reported many times in the past, including by myself, and you even tried to fix it on more than one occasion. Why was this not monitored more carefully? Why are we even here at this point, Nasomi? You and I both know you watch this stuff. You keep track of gil coming into the system and you never stopped to question it? It boggles my mind that this was allowed to happen. We've been through this before on this server.


Last edited by Oddin on Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm done.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:35 pm
Posts: 173
Hope after the initial shock wears off you decide to return, I myself lost about 17 mil and was really annoyed at first since it was all gained from selling iridals and hq staves and other various WW items. But after I thought about it for a few mins, I realized I still have the same amount in relation to everyone else since gil is more valuable now, and to be honest once you get to a certain point, you kind of run out of things to buy if you arent leveling anymore jobs.

If you do decide to not come back, it was nice knowing you, we hadnt ever done much together in game, but you were a valuable player and your GS helped a lot of people out on the server.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm done.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:25 pm 
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Site Admin

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:44 pm
Posts: 322
Oddin wrote:
I absolutely understand what has happened here. I know why you did it. What I don't understand is how you think this is fair at all. For starters, you don't get to dictate what prices are or what gil is worth. That's up to the playerbase to determine. So you saying my gil is now worth 4x as much is a load of crap. That's up to the player to determine what item is worth what price and is always subject to change. Just because you take a billion gil out of the system doesn't mean people aren't going to want the same amount of gil for certain items.

You say my items would never have sold if the money wasn't there. Fine, however they did sell and now I've not only lost the gil but I've lost the items. The buyers are now better off than I am because they have tangible items and I have nothing. Not only that but before any of this crap started happening, I was up to 23~24M before I started selling my higher gil items. Now I'm down to 12M~. So not only did I lose all the gil I made in the past few months, I lost half the gil I had earned before the exploiters ever came around. Where's the balance there?

I have been slowly building my fortune for 2 years and then it gets ripped out from under me. Why was this allowed to happen? I know this matter has been reported many times in the past, including by myself, and you even tried to fix it on more than one occasion. Why was this not monitored more carefully? Why are we even here at this point, Nasomi? You and I both know you watch this stuff. You keep track of gil coming into the system and you never stopped to question it? It boggles my mind that this was allowed to happen. We've been through this before on this server.


Right, I don't dictate prices or the worth of gil on the server. The players do. However, with a billion gil removed, player will start to realize that if they do want their things to sell, they're going to have to adjust prices. I didn't say they'd never have sold, I said htey wouldn't have sold for waht htey sold for. The economy would have been dramatically different.

I never said it was fair. I said this was the best solution I was able to come up with. I had been monitoring gil loosely, not sure where it was coming from, but completely unaware that it was being exploited from npc's. Once I learned about them, I worked hard on plugging the holes. Doesn't make sense to adjust things if gil is going to keep pouring into the economy, so nothing was done but watch in frustration. And it was frustrating, because I had no idea where it was coming from When I would fine one, another would appear. And it would continue. I only know what the players report, and while some report issues like this, most do not.

When the last of the holes got plugged about a month ago, and it was time to figure out how to fix the damage that had been done. The decision wasn't made lightly, by any means. There was no solution that worked well across the board, but the money needed to come out. Do I leave you with yours and take everyone elses? How does one pick and choose? There was no way.

But the value of 12m has changed, regardless of what the players say, because it's the percent of the whole. Before, 12m was a lot, but completely obtainable. Now, it's more than anyone else has. The percent of all the gil that you have has not changed, and that's what will end up dictating the value of the gil.


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