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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:27 pm 
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Nabutso wrote:
I know you arent do 50% less because that isn't the value nas told me. If you're doing 50% less ranged damage, report it as a bug. That should -never, ever, ever- happen.

Unless, of course, you're just misremembering your previous, maximum damage, and are instead using your new, highest, maximum damage, which, as I keep saying, is higher.


Maybe it's 50% less damage with the new formula? Let's say sweet spot is 120% dmg, and that being outside of the sweet spot is 80% dmg, then "50% less damage" would work if the person you replied to is mathematically impaired. You could also factor in damage ranges, where the low end dmg output outside of the sweet spot is doing 50% less than the high end dmg in the sweet spot.

But then again, the problem is that you (and maybe Nasomi?) seem to be equating a change like this as an across-the-board buff, without looking at things in a more practical way. To paraphrase many of the complaints in the thread so far: there's a correlation between a damage dealer's POTENTIAL damage per second output and the ease of using said damage dealer in normal scenarios that players experience within the game. To illustrate the point a bit better, say we had a job called Boom Mage. Boom Mages can - with decent gear and in a party - kill a typical EXP party mob with a single cast. But that single cast kills the entire party and leaves them Weakened. Sure, Boom Mages do crazy damage, but nobody wants them in EXP parties because the demerits are too pronounced to make the Boom Mage's superb damage output worth bringing to an EXP party.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:29 pm 
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Piellar wrote:
cthalupa wrote:
Piellar wrote:
If you want more data, level 55 Ranger hitting too weak mobs for fun in Qufim with a level 50 longbow +1 and scorpion arrows.

At 11.8 yalms I hit for 175-190, at melee range I hit for 125-135.

Seems consistent with what others have reported, but I may hold the unpopular belief that RNG needed to be nerfed that way and not stay the melee-range monster it was.



Care to explain how ranger is a melee range monster? It certainly wasn't outdamaging SAM


Nope but it was outdamaging pretty much everyone else while making additional TP with dagger-scratching to feed faster Sidewinders. Again, I will shed no tear for Rangers even though it's one of my jobs. It is still a very respectable damage dealer... at 11.8 range. For soloing it is most certainly weaker than it was.

Maybe during low level XP parties, but at 75 with comparable gear RNG is not out dpsing SAM, DRK, etc.

RNG were already one of the weakest solo DPS classes, so additionally lulzy.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:30 pm 
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Nas didn't consider this a buff. He knew people would -take it- as a nerf. My -opinion- is that it isn't a nerf or a buff. Unless you consider having to use additional strategy and stricter trigger finger nerfing. I'm sure some do.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:31 pm 
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cthalupa wrote:
Piellar wrote:
cthalupa wrote:


Care to explain how ranger is a melee range monster? It certainly wasn't outdamaging SAM


Nope but it was outdamaging pretty much everyone else while making additional TP with dagger-scratching to feed faster Sidewinders. Again, I will shed no tear for Rangers even though it's one of my jobs. It is still a very respectable damage dealer... at 11.8 range. For soloing it is most certainly weaker than it was.

Maybe during low level XP parties, but at 75 with comparable gear RNG is not out dpsing SAM, DRK, etc.

RNG were already one of the weakest solo DPS classes, so additionally lulzy.


I believe you, but then again the implementation of optimal range for ranged attacks was very predictable and I'm surprised at the lashback every time a job gets nerfed by removing unretail-like aspects. See: BST, SMN, etc.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:31 pm 
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Zaroua wrote:
Nabutso wrote:
I know you arent do 50% less because that isn't the value nas told me. If you're doing 50% less ranged damage, report it as a bug. That should -never, ever, ever- happen.

Unless, of course, you're just misremembering your previous, maximum damage, and are instead using your new, highest, maximum damage, which, as I keep saying, is higher.


Maybe it's 50% less damage with the new formula? Let's say sweet spot is 120% dmg, and that being outside of the sweet spot is 80% dmg, then "50% less damage" would work if the person you replied to is mathematically impaired. You could also factor in damage ranges, where the low end dmg output outside of the sweet spot is doing 50% less than the high end dmg in the sweet spot.



I am not basing the 50% number off of today's sweet spot changes, I am basing it off of my damage experience on OWNMs previously. I've been using the same gear on the same mobs with the same buffs and debuffs for months, so I am very familiar with the damage I did, and the damage I was doing today.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:32 pm 
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Nabutso wrote:
Nas didn't consider this a buff. He knew people would -take it- as a nerf. My -opinion- is that it isn't a nerf or a buff. Unless you consider having to use additional strategy and stricter trigger finger nerfing. I'm sure some do.



Least one of you isn’t retarded

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:33 pm 
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Nabutso wrote:
Nas didn't consider this a buff. He knew people would -take it- as a nerf. My -opinion- is that it isn't a nerf or a buff. Unless you consider having to use additional strategy and stricter trigger finger nerfing. I'm sure some do.

The ability to play within the changes optimally is still a nerf if even playing optimally you do less damage than you did before.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:33 pm 
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The point is you are not suited to be the mouthpiece Nab, whether unintentional or not. You lack both the general game knowledge and social skills for that, sorry. When you have a bunch of ACTUAL RNGs communicating their findings and you dismiss it because, "Thats not what I was told," you need to just stop.

We need clear patch notes and a way to report legitimate feedback to Nasomi directly regarding updates that is more efficient than the current system. Maybe then we can avoid these giant flame wars everytime Nas does something and you have to ride out and try to defend things by parroting dubious info.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:34 pm 
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Piellar wrote:
I believe you, but then again the implementation of optimal range for ranged attacks was very predictable and I'm surprised at the lashback every time a job gets nerfed by removing unretail-like aspects. See: BST, SMN, etc.


Except it wasn't. RNG+BLM were the only thing used endgame in RotZ, this led to SE implementing the same element nerf for BLM and range nerf for RNG. It's also why Utsusemi no longer takes AoE TP moves/spells with 1 shadow. That was a change done way earlier though.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:34 pm 
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Kubisnaxx wrote:
Nabutso wrote:
Tex wrote:

Don't worry, soon this person will be in charge of deeming what is and what is not considered a valuable report through the upcoming ticket system. I'm sure it will go over rather well when it comes to balancing issues reported by the community when one person simply believes a job is OP so the reports of bugs for said job do not go through. :)

I do not pressure nas to make any changes to any job. ever.

You know what I did do? I told him every day for 3 months how embarrassing it is to not have auto-hp fixed while darkstar did. And he fixed that, as far as I'm aware, in this maint, completely.

That's the only affect I had, if you even want to make that stretch, on this maint.



I’m sure they’ve had ammo delay in the ranged tp formula now for longer as well. Something the community ACTUALLY wants


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Nah m8, he gains TP like a CRAZY insane person on Rng. Bug reported, not worth mentioning to Nas because no distance nerf was in place. This was months ago.

Hey, so maybe since the distance nerf is in place, and I - as I'm sure many others have already also - determined that ammo for guns in particular gives literally 0 TP despite accounting for a third of the weapon's delay it can be mentioned to Nas now? Thanks

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