I don't think you can really consider him removing gil from the economy unreasonable when most of the gil was made from buying from an NPC and re-selling to it in a massive exploit.

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It was very unreasonable to myself who made my gil legit, but that was only one of the many things I mentioned, still doesn't change the truth.

Yeah.. I don't like the loss rate at all.. I've done maybe 30 Haubergeon synths, horrible hq rate, but whats more sad is that ive broken more than ive hq'ed, sitting at 5 crit busts atm with 90% loss in mats, all Dingots lost. At this point with HQs selling for barely 3.5mil and nq going for loss, you dont even recover it on the hq.

And the skill up rate lol. Leveling Goldsmithing as well, Started at 97.2, Made it to 98.1... In 200 synths, which costed about 9.5 million gil lol.

I mean, I like the grind and all, but just sucks for new players trying to enjoy all aspects of the game. The crafting nerf doesn't need to be reversed in my opinion, but making some areas, be it skill ups or break rate, a little less harsh would be nice.

That's where I stand. You don't necessarily have to fix both but at least one. I would be ok with slow skills if I didn't lose more than half my mats. I would be ok with losing mats if I was actually Skilling up at a decent rate. Either way I'm good with.

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PM 3-5, Sandy 6-1, ZM 4-1

Yeah, the skill up rate even at low levels is terrible. Someone in my LS spent a weird amount of gil and time getting cooking from 1 to 5...

damm this is really sad, crafting was fine before this change, like perfect. Why make such a big change? All i know is that I am sure the crafting system will be fixed,
hopefully soon because what people are posting about the horrid skill ups and mats loss makes crafting 100% useless, and that's obviously a huge problem.
Besides I was lvling leathercraft before the change and it was perfect, great balance of mat loss and skill ups, this was a completely useless and a huge mistake
of a nerf.

Having day/moon/direction effects was not 'perfect', but further changes that seem to have caused a higher rate of crit breaks and less HQs certainly wasn't necessary. Unless someone has a retail source otherwise.

I think it may be a good idea to record some data on the breaks.

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Here's some data. This is a screenshot (July 2nd) of when I first started crafting Darksteel Picks. Advanced Support brought me to 4.5 under cap. The irony is the successful synth at the start -with the .1 skillup- that gave me the hope to press onward.

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Stratifiction

Also check out these screenshots from 2006.

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/l3l ... anBn/?ref=

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/l3l ... Zw==/?ref=

And some other crafting threads:

https://www.ffxionline.com/forum/ffxi-g ... l-up-rates

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/39837 ... discussion)-by-Poundkake/page2

4.5 under cap? Since decimals don't matter, that just means 5 under cap.

We need a much larger sample size to look at. Here is my data from today:



As far as those screenshots go Kenzo, they were taken for a reason: because they saw something amazing.

The discussion in the first link forgets to mention skill level difference and seems to treat it all the same (as if synthing something 1 level above you will skill you up just as quickly as something 5 above you).

The other thing about both those discussions is that they swear by the 'moon/day/direction' meme, which we know never existed. That means that these people cannot be trusted to have taken down any data, as that data would have quickly changed their mind about moon/day/direction. You won't even find a consensus in that thread that any of the opinions they give there are true.

We aren't going to compare the data to what people say happened in retail or to random screenshots because neither of those are reliable. We're going to compare the data to what makes sense for a fun game. If you break 80% of your synths 4 levels away in the long run, you bet that's a problem.

edit: I'm not saying there isn't or can't be a problem right now. I just don't think a few screenshots is going to help anyone. I'll record as much data as possible and we can discuss how reasonable it looks like in paper, and we can discuss how things feel more difficult because of the inability to increase difficulty, etc. We can have a discussion around the data. Nas hates when we 'solve' things, especially if they're 'wrong', so if the data shows something funky, you bet he's gonna ninja it.

If you feel like contributing, post here the following:
Your synth level:
The synth's cap:
Number of successful synths:
Number of HQs:
Number of failed synths:
Materials lost: (if you lose all the materials, you add "1" here. If you lost half you add ".5", etc)

The total number of synths is successful + failed. HQ and lost is just additional data on top of that.

So if you HQ a synth, you add 1 to success AND to HQ. If you fail a synth and lose 3 out of 4 materials, you add 1 to failed and .75 to materials lost. This way we know the % of materials you lose on average per synth.

Let's generate a ton of data from all level ranges. Please don't submit data only from successful or unsuccessful runs. If you sit down to craft for a while, save -all- the data in the format above. If our results are tainted then nas will ignore them. If they match what he's coded in and we say "it's really dumb" then it's more likely he'd change it.

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