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 Post subject: Re: Unplayable
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 7:56 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:12 am
Posts: 1222
Rubicund wrote:
Kazen wrote:
Rubicund wrote:



No, and I hope he changes that too, and deletes all relics/merits. He won't though as that'll cause too much uproar.

Edit: I don't understand what this comment was truly meant to do. Are you trying to pull a "gotcha" and show how some people are ok with some things being authentic and other's being custom?



"well, it's era for authentic experience" argument that is not logical because they are cherry picking when to use it to prove a point that is moot. So yes, it's a gotcha moment.

A few points to add:

- The server needs a lot more shit done and fixed so changing EP/DC XP, and also my white damage decreased, is the the last thing the server needs. I can see why people are upset from what I've seen in game.

Note: My 71 (now 74) dual wielding thf dmg was constant 100 dmg per switch vs EP eating meat and it changed to 62~98 dmg per switch with meat after the update. I used to love farming EPs for gil and xp.

- The server needs an influx of new players so discouraging new players is not ideal

- People on the server had it easy mode for a long time and the people who say "welcome to era experience" are most likely done leveling and thus lacking empathy towards new players

In conclusion, there are a lot of links not era accurate so let people feel what they feel :)


I'm going to use Vik's line, you can't blame people for when they found the server. The fact that things are progressively getting changed to more reflect 2006 era is something that should be expected on this server. Just because some people are finished doesn't mean the people you've quoted are. As I've said I'm doing Maat's Cap and need 8+ jobs 1-66 atm, so is ctha it seems.

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 Post subject: Re: Unplayable
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:32 pm
Posts: 11
lolBST wrote:
Dogreformed wrote:
Dear nesami,
I have made my own thread expressing my problems with this case bt you have deleted my thread as well as ban my acc and ip ban too.

This any kind of change that makes the game harder for new players is unacceptable.
Any kind of change that pushes this “the rich get richer and the poor gets poorer” is not welcomed by the people

Change the exp back and turn on exp bands permanently.

If u delete this post or ban this acc I’ll spam the forum with blacked endlessly.

Thank you
Yours truly,
dog


fuck off you ridiculous troll


Why you mad at dogfker. He's allowed an opinion too.

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 Post subject: Re: Unplayable
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 5:29 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:24 pm
Posts: 640
Kazen wrote:
Rubicund wrote:
Kazen wrote:



"well, it's era for authentic experience" argument that is not logical because they are cherry picking when to use it to prove a point that is moot. So yes, it's a gotcha moment.

A few points to add:

- The server needs a lot more shit done and fixed so changing EP/DC XP, and also my white damage decreased, is the the last thing the server needs. I can see why people are upset from what I've seen in game.

Note: My 71 (now 74) dual wielding thf dmg was constant 100 dmg per switch vs EP eating meat and it changed to 62~98 dmg per switch with meat after the update. I used to love farming EPs for gil and xp.

- The server needs an influx of new players so discouraging new players is not ideal

- People on the server had it easy mode for a long time and the people who say "welcome to era experience" are most likely done leveling and thus lacking empathy towards new players

In conclusion, there are a lot of links not era accurate so let people feel what they feel :)


I'm going to use Vik's line, you can't blame people for when they found the server. The fact that things are progressively getting changed to more reflect 2006 era is something that should be expected on this server. Just because some people are finished doesn't mean the people you've quoted are. As I've said I'm doing Maat's Cap and need 8+ jobs 1-66 atm, so is ctha it seems.



Yep. I'm stupid as fuck and going for the cap twice over, so I've got LOTS of leveling left to do.


You nailed the rest of it as well, but for Rubicund:

I'm aware Nasomi is not a perfectly retail accurate experience. Nor is necessarily supposed to be - we have iridal/chat, Jorm drops track pants, OWNMs exist, etc. Nasomi has a vision for what he wants the server to be. I don't like every change he makes. I don't LIKE this one. But I'm probably going to do more 1-12 leveling post change than the vast majority of people that are really upset about it. Hell - I might have done it more already since the change occurred than they ever will.

This game is frankly fucking stupid. We have mobs that have 30 minute gaps between spawn windows, with a 48 hour larger window in which they can spawn. Competition is fierce enough on Nasomi these days that you have to have a holding party out there the entirety of that time. And then, more often then not, if you even get the claim, you spend an hour killing it and it doesn't drop anything you care about. I've wasted more of my time camping Tiamat in just the past week than I ever will lose to this XP change. But I still love the game, despite it being fucking stupid.

My perspective is that this isn't a random change that makes no sense - it's putting the game closer to the vision Nas has for it, and it matches the era he (mostly) shoots for. And with everything else in mind, despite the impact that this change is going to take on me personally, I still just can't find myself to be too bothered by it, outside of complaining on discord or in ls chat when I'm in the middle of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Unplayable
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 6:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:42 pm
Posts: 11
cthalupa wrote:
Kazen wrote:
Rubicund wrote:


"well, it's era for authentic experience" argument that is not logical because they are cherry picking when to use it to prove a point that is moot. So yes, it's a gotcha moment.

A few points to add:

- The server needs a lot more shit done and fixed so changing EP/DC XP, and also my white damage decreased, is the the last thing the server needs. I can see why people are upset from what I've seen in game.

Note: My 71 (now 74) dual wielding thf dmg was constant 100 dmg per switch vs EP eating meat and it changed to 62~98 dmg per switch with meat after the update. I used to love farming EPs for gil and xp.

- The server needs an influx of new players so discouraging new players is not ideal

- People on the server had it easy mode for a long time and the people who say "welcome to era experience" are most likely done leveling and thus lacking empathy towards new players

In conclusion, there are a lot of links not era accurate so let people feel what they feel :)


I'm going to use Vik's line, you can't blame people for when they found the server. The fact that things are progressively getting changed to more reflect 2006 era is something that should be expected on this server. Just because some people are finished doesn't mean the people you've quoted are. As I've said I'm doing Maat's Cap and need 8+ jobs 1-66 atm, so is ctha it seems.



Yep. I'm stupid as fuck and going for the cap twice over, so I've got LOTS of leveling left to do.


You nailed the rest of it as well, but for Rubicund:

I'm aware Nasomi is not a perfectly retail accurate experience. Nor is necessarily supposed to be - we have iridal/chat, Jorm drops track pants, OWNMs exist, etc. Nasomi has a vision for what he wants the server to be. I don't like every change he makes. I don't LIKE this one. But I'm probably going to do more 1-12 leveling post change than the vast majority of people that are really upset about it. Hell - I might have done it more already since the change occurred than they ever will.

This game is frankly fucking stupid. We have mobs that have 30 minute gaps between spawn windows, with a 48 hour larger window in which they can spawn. Competition is fierce enough on Nasomi these days that you have to have a holding party out there the entirety of that time. And then, more often then not, if you even get the claim, you spend an hour killing it and it doesn't drop anything you care about. I've wasted more of my time camping Tiamat in just the past week than I ever will lose to this XP change. But I still love the game, despite it being fucking stupid.

My perspective is that this isn't a random change that makes no sense - it's putting the game closer to the vision Nas has for it, and it matches the era he (mostly) shoots for. And with everything else in mind, despite the impact that this change is going to take on me personally, I still just can't find myself to be too bothered by it, outside of complaining on discord or in ls chat when I'm in the middle of it.



I agree with you here, it just seems odd out of all the things he has to do he choose that and in the process screwed some shit up.

Probably would of been better to keep it as it was.


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 Post subject: Re: Unplayable
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 8:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:13 am
Posts: 15
People seem to be assuming that nasomi wants a larger influx of new players, but it might be the opposite. First of all, it's not like altering the exp table should be very difficult or take up much of his time, just changing a few numbers to be retail era accurate should have been trivial. The fact that it took so long to implement the change implies that nasomi was fine with it the way it was for years, until recently deciding he needed to change it. And then exp rings also get shut off after being on for months. Making it harder for new players like this will keep them away, and keep the server size manageable, which may be his real intention for now.

But really I think this is a bigger blow to jobs that require or at least largely benefit from soloing, such as bst, thf... pup? Personally I soloed a significant amount exp on thf from 60-75 by grinding through ep for 70-80 a pop, 100+ with rings. Same with bst. At least with bst, they can switch to targeting EM-T, which is slower than murdering EP under the old exp table, but should still be fine. Really I do not envy anyone trying to level thf now, just a brutal change. Taking away or at least kneecapping the thf solo capabilities for exp means they have to compete with the other 50 thf looking for exp parties.

For everyone else, it really shouldn't be THAT big of a deal soloing 1-12. I think I would recommend to any new players to dualbox from day one, so that you can target EM and high DC mobs.

Anyway, this is nothing even remotely close to the crafting 'fixes' that made skillups post level 60 much, much harder, and a minor fraction of what they were in retail era. I was fortunate enough to get my crafting up into the 90 before the changes hit. You wanna talk about gatekeeping against new players, I would never advise any new player to do anything but fishing. You want something crafted, find one of the old guard who capped there crafting back when it was easy, do not try to level it yourself. Hopefully this is clear to many new players that they should not be expecting retail experience with craft skillups. HQ rates are accurate though at least, so the people that already maxed out there crafts can benefit.


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 Post subject: Re: Unplayable
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 11:00 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:37 am
Posts: 270
Andrina wrote:
Anyway, this is nothing even remotely close to the crafting 'fixes' that made skillups post level 60 much, much harder, and a minor fraction of what they were in retail era. I was fortunate enough to get my crafting up into the 90 before the changes hit. You wanna talk about gatekeeping against new players, I would never advise any new player to do anything but fishing. You want something crafted, find one of the old guard who capped there crafting back when it was easy, do not try to level it yourself. Hopefully this is clear to many new players that they should not be expecting retail experience with craft skillups. HQ rates are accurate though at least, so the people that already maxed out there crafts can benefit.


This is accurate. The crux of the problem lies in how skillups become more difficult as you level. They used to start too easy, then get too hard; however with the old day/moon/direction system being very OP, and it being possible to get more than .1 above 60, it was still manageable to level in the 90s.

Now the low levels are still too easy, and the higher levels are too hard with nothing to counterbalance. It's been like this for two something years now though, so it'd be a slap in the face to anyone who leveled under the more challenging system to now make it easier, which is exactly the sort of thing retail was so guilty of. If there's a straightforward solution I don't see it.


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 Post subject: Re: Unplayable
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 12:30 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:13 am
Posts: 15
Deadwing wrote:
Now the low levels are still too easy, and the higher levels are too hard with nothing to counterbalance. It's been like this for two something years now though, so it'd be a slap in the face to anyone who leveled under the more challenging system to now make it easier, which is exactly the sort of thing retail was so guilty of. If there's a straightforward solution I don't see it.


Maybe this is just because this is the natural trend in how online games have to evolve, but it's generally a better idea to make things easier over time than to make them harder. Anyone who has ever played an online game for long enough has experienced those kind of changes, and all it really results in is the oldschool players saying "It was waaay harder back when I did 'x'!" as a sort of status symbol. No game developers ever want to make things that were easy harder, because it will piss off newer players if you make it that much harder for them to catch up. If you ever have to take an action that will be inherently unfair to one group of players or another, game developers are going to choose to inconvenience the older, endgame players over the new players 100% of the time, because they will lose far fewer subscriptions in doing so.

But Nasomi is a special beast. He really has no reason to care about drawing in new players, or about listening to their complaints.


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 Post subject: Re: Unplayable
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 1:14 am 
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Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 12:00 pm
Posts: 35
Andrina wrote:
But really I think this is a bigger blow to jobs that require or at least largely benefit from soloing, such as bst, thf... pup? Personally I soloed a significant amount exp on thf from 60-75 by grinding through ep for 70-80 a pop, 100+ with rings. Same with bst



I also solo'd a significant amount of BST exp off easy prey. Im wondering how the exp was changed exactly. Somebody in this thread mentioned 20% reduction but naww I don't think so. I've now seen easy prey give 15-20 exp. 20% reduction would mean that those mobs used to give like 18-25 exp. I don't recall ever receiving exp that low when grinding easy prey. My memory may be flawed but I recall exp rates closer to 50-80 WITHOUT an exp ring


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 Post subject: Re: Unplayable
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 3:14 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:21 pm
Posts: 2
EmeraldxWeapon wrote:
Andrina wrote:
But really I think this is a bigger blow to jobs that require or at least largely benefit from soloing, such as bst, thf... pup? Personally I soloed a significant amount exp on thf from 60-75 by grinding through ep for 70-80 a pop, 100+ with rings. Same with bst



I also solo'd a significant amount of BST exp off easy prey. Im wondering how the exp was changed exactly. Somebody in this thread mentioned 20% reduction but naww I don't think so. I've now seen easy prey give 15-20 exp. 20% reduction would mean that those mobs used to give like 18-25 exp. I don't recall ever receiving exp that low when grinding easy prey. My memory may be flawed but I recall exp rates closer to 50-80 WITHOUT an exp ring


Seems like mobs that were too week now check as EP, from my experience leveling 1-12 this week.


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 Post subject: Re: Unplayable
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:24 pm
Posts: 640
EmeraldxWeapon wrote:
Andrina wrote:
But really I think this is a bigger blow to jobs that require or at least largely benefit from soloing, such as bst, thf... pup? Personally I soloed a significant amount exp on thf from 60-75 by grinding through ep for 70-80 a pop, 100+ with rings. Same with bst



I also solo'd a significant amount of BST exp off easy prey. Im wondering how the exp was changed exactly. Somebody in this thread mentioned 20% reduction but naww I don't think so. I've now seen easy prey give 15-20 exp. 20% reduction would mean that those mobs used to give like 18-25 exp. I don't recall ever receiving exp that low when grinding easy prey. My memory may be flawed but I recall exp rates closer to 50-80 WITHOUT an exp ring

The lowest tier of EP before becoming TWTBW and giving zero XP would give that amount of XP.


It's not a 20% reduction - the values were set back to the retail ones. There's no specific percentage that was universally applied - in some cases the XP drop is over 50% vs. what it was prior.

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