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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:39 am 
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This is why I only tank on rdm and nin. Plds are pussies.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:06 am 
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I thought I'd post my first experience tanking as a PLD. We claimed Jorm, I'm co-tanking with another PLD. Through the first 15-20% I'm basically getting carried as I get acclimated to my situation. Around 80% I start co-tanking much more as I learned the mechanics of playing off another person with enmity. At 75%, we were stable and the fight was going smoothly my co-tank said "Okay, you have hate, afk." Something like this is usually done to first time tanks in my LS, to gauge how you react under pressure and handle the situation. During this time I was stressing for the first 2-3% but soon realized. I had 2 Get Out of Jail Free cards. One that lasted 3:05. I distinctly remember Jorm going up, into the air, popping Fealty, popping my cure cheat twice and alt-tabbing to read reddit. Granted I still kept an eye to see when Jorm landed so I could put shadows back up and resume tanking. I proceeded to do this for the next 2 air phases as Fealty was still active during this time.

P.S. Other tank was afk for 20 minutes and I took all steps involved in packing up a bowl thanks to Rampart and Fealty.

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Deft RDM75/BRD75/BLM75/SMN75
Drop THF75/RNG75/DRK75/COR75/SAM75/NIN75/PLD75/MNK75
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:59 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:30 am
Posts: 46
Aeroo wrote:
This is why I only tank on rdm and nin. Plds are pussies.


Excuuuuse me, Mister! :shock:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:21 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:14 pm
Posts: 26
PLD is a busted, terrible job.

Disregard anyone who says anything about any facet of PLD being OP. It is a DD Melee job that can't do DD until it gets the Aegis. NIN/WAR can do more than PLD/WAR under basically any pt circumstance.

I wanted to enjoy my time on Nasomi, but have found it incredibly hard to do so because I wanted to play as a sword and shield guy so I picked the sword and shield job, despite shields adding virtually nothing but occassional damage reduction and sword being an intentionally gimped melee weapon cause it was originally meant for RDM. After 65, PLD can't keep hate in parties, defeating the purpose of it supposedly being a tank job. Hate gets controlled primarily by curing and dealing damage, but PLD sucks at both of these things and requires /war for vokes.

PLD's role is questionable. Its basically just a weaker RDM that can only cast cures and no enfeebles or enthunder, yet is expected to be frontline support for some bizarre reason.

Idk if this is how the job originally was or if its a Nasomi thing, but its the worst common job currently on this server. It doesn't do a single thing well and explicitly cannot even begin to be a viable tank role until you already have the relic weapon and shield for it.

Can't tell you how many nasty players have given me lip simply because this job requires an RDM and two THF's minimum to make the PLD work "as intended". This ain't a job. It's four jobs.

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I'm not responding anymore, just cause half the replies I get are just one more dummy trying to start their own conversation/argument about something else entirely.

Pretty sure jabberwacky can keep a train of thought more consistent than this forum.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:37 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:52 pm
Posts: 516
PLD is the worst tank in endgame

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:35 pm
Posts: 166
ZweiHerzen wrote:
PLD is a busted, terrible job.

Disregard anyone who says anything about any facet of PLD being OP. It is a DD Melee job that can't do DD until it gets the Aegis. NIN/WAR can do more than PLD/WAR under basically any pt circumstance.

I wanted to enjoy my time on Nasomi, but have found it incredibly hard to do so because I wanted to play as a sword and shield guy so I picked the sword and shield job, despite shields adding virtually nothing but occassional damage reduction and sword being an intentionally gimped melee weapon cause it was originally meant for RDM. After 65, PLD can't keep hate in parties, defeating the purpose of it supposedly being a tank job. Hate gets controlled primarily by curing and dealing damage, but PLD sucks at both of these things and requires /war for vokes.

PLD's role is questionable. Its basically just a weaker RDM that can only cast cures and no enfeebles or enthunder, yet is expected to be frontline support for some bizarre reason.

Idk if this is how the job originally was or if its a Nasomi thing, but its the worst common job currently on this server. It doesn't do a single thing well and explicitly cannot even begin to be a viable tank role until you already have the relic weapon and shield for it.

Can't tell you how many nasty players have given me lip simply because this job requires an RDM and two THF's minimum to make the PLD work "as intended". This ain't a job. It's four jobs.


Is this a copypasta? lol


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:17 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:12 am
Posts: 832
Has to be.

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Deft RDM75/BRD75/BLM75/SMN75
Drop THF75/RNG75/DRK75/COR75/SAM75/NIN75/PLD75/MNK75
Sleep wrote:
Don't you fashist shits have no life?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:14 pm
Posts: 26
I'm just sayin how it is. The actual Damage Dealing classes start doing in excess SO much more damage than PLD as the levels progress that by 65, the hate from an initial voke and flash can be nearly instantly overwritten by any of the DD's TP moves initiated within seconds. I was just chilling in my AF gear and even had a pal go out of his way to acquire a Wivre shield for me, but mere "Enmity+" gear is absolutely not enough to retain hate, so i switched things up and got the best DEX/STR/Att/Acc i could reasonably afford so I could land more hits to generate more TP to remind the mob that I exist too, but even this plan of attack has had dubious returns, though I have occasionally started to get hate returned to me just via attacks which was something that never happened before. With +15DEX and +8~10STR, +10att and +10acc, I still need a bard or pizza to increase my accuracy enough to merely match what the actual DD's seem to get in base stats and their haubergeons, yet even still I'm using Sword which has some of the worst TP moves that often rely on STR+MND, while playing PLD which is the only Melee job that has no attack-modifying buffs/spells/job abilities/traits. You look at Great Axe and its modifiers are STR+VIT, and even though VIT is supposedly an excellent PLD stat, Sword hasn't a single VIT related weapon skill, nor can PLD use Great Axes. But PLD can use Great Sword to a lesser degree than Sword, yet still most of those weapon skills are STR+AGI, STR+MND, or STR+INT, with the sole weapon skill of note which actually uses STR+VIT being exclusive to the late end-game Relic Great Sword -- and further still, if a PLD truly wished to go down that Great Sword route just for the 2handed attack buff that comes naturally with all 2handed weapons, they then lose Shield Bash as an auxiliary hate-generating/life-saving move. With the way enmity works here, it becomes a serious challenge for PLD to maintain hate in party of damage dealers, and a seemingly wasted party slot that is otherwise slowing down the party because PLD's damage-dealing capacity is at least half as effective as other melee jobs.

An EXP party finds it hard to rely on the PLD retaining primary hate with the lengthy cool-downs on all of PLD's abilities when provoke and flash are the only things that will likely not be down from one mob to the next. The PLD's unique trait and party placement of being a great matchup against undead is also questionable when Holy Circle has 10 minutes of cool-down.

You can rely on a WHM to heal with their large MP pool and Divine Seal. You can rely on a DD Melee to deal a lot of damage in short amount of time. But PLD gets none of this. PLD naturally only has just enough MP for 5 or so CureIV's which may be spent rather quickly against the tougher 66+ mobs, spent on themselves because they're taking every hit unlike their DD counterparts subbing /NIN.

For as much as I can figure, there is no "primary tank" role here. You go PLD/WAR not to initiate first voke and flash, but to backup voke/flash after the DD/NIN's have traded attention of the mob so sufficiently that somehow their shadow's are down, which is still not much better for the PLD's party placement than simply having another DD/NIN there who could have absorbed some damage with their own shadows to allow enough time for whoever didn't have their Utsusemi up to get it back up. Yet if you /sea all pld 75, you're likely going to see that most of them are /nin anyway cause the dynamics of the high-level mob strength here just basically insist that you cannot reliably tank hit-for-hit without dying, even as PLD, and that trading hate among your party members is a granted fact that cannot be avoided, which again -- is something that was going to happen regardless if the PLD was there or not, but still there is less DD in the party because the PLD is present.
Maybe PLD is great for high-HP NM's and long battles that may require the use of Invincible, but Invincible is usually followed quickly by death because of just how much enmity it generates to the point that no manner of any outside source of damage or curing can steal hate off the PLD.

This job is just so confusing for all the wrong reasons when it is just a guy with a sword and shield and a little bit of healing magic. The internet refers to it as a tank, yet in execution it truly isn't. It's a support healing job with a high rate of martyrdom. It's a healing mage with just enough of a little attack power to sum something more towards the death of a mob than a WHM would have provided -- yet is still not an honest replacement for either a WHM or a DD melee job.

_________________
I'm not responding anymore, just cause half the replies I get are just one more dummy trying to start their own conversation/argument about something else entirely.

Pretty sure jabberwacky can keep a train of thought more consistent than this forum.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:12 am
Posts: 832
ZweiHerzen wrote:
I'm just sayin how it is. The actual Damage Dealing classes start doing in excess SO much more damage than PLD as the levels progress that by 65, the hate from an initial voke and flash can be nearly instantly overwritten by any of the DD's TP moves initiated within seconds. I was just chilling in my AF gear and even had a pal go out of his way to acquire a Wivre shield for me, but mere "Enmity+" gear is absolutely not enough to retain hate, so i switched things up and got the best DEX/STR/Att/Acc i could reasonably afford so I could land more hits to generate more TP to remind the mob that I exist too, but even this plan of attack has had dubious returns, though I have occasionally started to get hate returned to me just via attacks which was something that never happened before. With +15DEX and +8~10STR, +10att and +10acc, I still need a bard or pizza to increase my accuracy enough to merely match what the actual DD's seem to get in base stats and their haubergeons, yet even still I'm using Sword which has some of the worst TP moves that often rely on STR+MND, while playing PLD which is the only Melee job that has no attack-modifying buffs/spells/job abilities/traits. You look at Great Axe and its modifiers are STR+VIT, and even though VIT is supposedly an excellent PLD stat, Sword hasn't a single VIT related weapon skill, nor can PLD use Great Axes. But PLD can use Great Sword to a lesser degree than Sword, yet still most of those weapon skills are STR+AGI, STR+MND, or STR+INT, with the sole weapon skill of note which actually uses STR+VIT being exclusive to the late end-game Relic Great Sword -- and further still, if a PLD truly wished to go down that Great Sword route just for the 2handed attack buff that comes naturally with all 2handed weapons, they then lose Shield Bash as an auxiliary hate-generating/life-saving move. With the way enmity works here, it becomes a serious challenge for PLD to maintain hate in party of damage dealers, and a seemingly wasted party slot that is otherwise slowing down the party because PLD's damage-dealing capacity is at least half as effective as other melee jobs.

An EXP party finds it hard to rely on the PLD retaining primary hate with the lengthy cool-downs on all of PLD's abilities when provoke and flash are the only things that will likely not be down from one mob to the next. The PLD's unique trait and party placement of being a great matchup against undead is also questionable when Holy Circle has 10 minutes of cool-down.

You can rely on a WHM to heal with their large MP pool and Divine Seal. You can rely on a DD Melee to deal a lot of damage in short amount of time. But PLD gets none of this. PLD naturally only has just enough MP for 5 or so CureIV's which may be spent rather quickly against the tougher 66+ mobs, spent on themselves because they're taking every hit unlike their DD counterparts subbing /NIN.

For as much as I can figure, there is no "primary tank" role here. You go PLD/WAR not to initiate first voke and flash, but to backup voke/flash after the DD/NIN's have traded attention of the mob so sufficiently that somehow their shadow's are down, which is still not much better for the PLD's party placement than simply having another DD/NIN there who could have absorbed some damage with their own shadows to allow enough time for whoever didn't have their Utsusemi up to get it back up. Yet if you /sea all pld 75, you're likely going to see that most of them are /nin anyway cause the dynamics of the high-level mob strength here just basically insist that you cannot reliably tank hit-for-hit without dying, even as PLD, and that trading hate among your party members is a granted fact that cannot be avoided, which again -- is something that was going to happen regardless if the PLD was there or not, but still there is less DD in the party because the PLD is present.
Maybe PLD is great for high-HP NM's and long battles that may require the use of Invincible, but Invincible is usually followed quickly by death because of just how much enmity it generates to the point that no manner of any outside source of damage or curing can steal hate off the PLD.

This job is just so confusing for all the wrong reasons when it is just a guy with a sword and shield and a little bit of healing magic.


lol such a good pasta.

PLD tanks aren't good the higher you get in exp PTs. PLD shines on prolonged fights(IE: HNMs). You speak of gearing for damage, then say you only gave yourself "+15DEX and +8~10STR, +10att and +10acc" which isn't enough to give a noticeable improvement. Haubergeon alone gives 10 attack/acc and 5STR/DEX. PCC/Spectacles is another accuracy boost. Sniper's Rings, Coral/Merman's Earrings, there's much more gear where you can stack stats than just the small numbers you listed. Regardless PLD will never get up to the numbers of regular DD because you don't have the Job Traits such as Attack/Acc Bonus or offensive JAs. Utilizing your limited MP pool to help keep hate is what a PLD is supposed to do, both in exp and endgame. If you're running out of MP very quickly, you need a change in approach. Just because you have the MP for a Cure IV doesn't mean you need to use it all on that. Speaking of sword WS, WAR/NIN with Ridill/Joyeuse used to be one of the better DDs before the 2H update(we are post 2H update here on Nasomi). Again lack of offensive JAs/Traits are the reason for your lack of damage, not the WS selection itself.

Also, a good DD is going to make a PLD almost worthless in an exp PT slot, that's the way it's always been in era and on Nasomi.

Edit:
Quote:
The internet refers to it as a tank, yet in execution it truly isn't. It's a support healing job with a high rate of martyrdom. It's a healing mage with just enough of a little attack power to sum something more towards the death of a mob than a WHM would have provided -- yet is still not an honest replacement for either a WHM or a DD melee job.


What role would you call a job that has primarily defensive Job Traits and Abilities, with the ability to heal itself?

Worth noting, SE never intended for TP-burn to be the preferred style of exp. Skillchain/MB(max 8-10k/hr in era) and a balanced PT layout was the go to for a year or so after release. It wasn't until people started experimenting with different setups that the TP-burn meta was created.

2nd Edit: First and last time responding seriously to you.

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Deft RDM75/BRD75/BLM75/SMN75
Drop THF75/RNG75/DRK75/COR75/SAM75/NIN75/PLD75/MNK75
Sleep wrote:
Don't you fashist shits have no life?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:14 pm
Posts: 26
Kazen wrote:
ZweiHerzen wrote:
I'm just sayin how it is. The actual Damage Dealing classes start doing in excess SO much more damage than PLD as the levels progress that by 65, the hate from an initial voke and flash can be nearly instantly overwritten by any of the DD's TP moves initiated within seconds. I was just chilling in my AF gear and even had a pal go out of his way to acquire a Wivre shield for me, but mere "Enmity+" gear is absolutely not enough to retain hate, so i switched things up and got the best DEX/STR/Att/Acc i could reasonably afford so I could land more hits to generate more TP to remind the mob that I exist too, but even this plan of attack has had dubious returns, though I have occasionally started to get hate returned to me just via attacks which was something that never happened before. With +15DEX and +8~10STR, +10att and +10acc, I still need a bard or pizza to increase my accuracy enough to merely match what the actual DD's seem to get in base stats and their haubergeons, yet even still I'm using Sword which has some of the worst TP moves that often rely on STR+MND, while playing PLD which is the only Melee job that has no attack-modifying buffs/spells/job abilities/traits. You look at Great Axe and its modifiers are STR+VIT, and even though VIT is supposedly an excellent PLD stat, Sword hasn't a single VIT related weapon skill, nor can PLD use Great Axes. But PLD can use Great Sword to a lesser degree than Sword, yet still most of those weapon skills are STR+AGI, STR+MND, or STR+INT, with the sole weapon skill of note which actually uses STR+VIT being exclusive to the late end-game Relic Great Sword -- and further still, if a PLD truly wished to go down that Great Sword route just for the 2handed attack buff that comes naturally with all 2handed weapons, they then lose Shield Bash as an auxiliary hate-generating/life-saving move. With the way enmity works here, it becomes a serious challenge for PLD to maintain hate in party of damage dealers, and a seemingly wasted party slot that is otherwise slowing down the party because PLD's damage-dealing capacity is at least half as effective as other melee jobs.

An EXP party finds it hard to rely on the PLD retaining primary hate with the lengthy cool-downs on all of PLD's abilities when provoke and flash are the only things that will likely not be down from one mob to the next. The PLD's unique trait and party placement of being a great matchup against undead is also questionable when Holy Circle has 10 minutes of cool-down.

You can rely on a WHM to heal with their large MP pool and Divine Seal. You can rely on a DD Melee to deal a lot of damage in short amount of time. But PLD gets none of this. PLD naturally only has just enough MP for 5 or so CureIV's which may be spent rather quickly against the tougher 66+ mobs, spent on themselves because they're taking every hit unlike their DD counterparts subbing /NIN.

For as much as I can figure, there is no "primary tank" role here. You go PLD/WAR not to initiate first voke and flash, but to backup voke/flash after the DD/NIN's have traded attention of the mob so sufficiently that somehow their shadow's are down, which is still not much better for the PLD's party placement than simply having another DD/NIN there who could have absorbed some damage with their own shadows to allow enough time for whoever didn't have their Utsusemi up to get it back up. Yet if you /sea all pld 75, you're likely going to see that most of them are /nin anyway cause the dynamics of the high-level mob strength here just basically insist that you cannot reliably tank hit-for-hit without dying, even as PLD, and that trading hate among your party members is a granted fact that cannot be avoided, which again -- is something that was going to happen regardless if the PLD was there or not, but still there is less DD in the party because the PLD is present.
Maybe PLD is great for high-HP NM's and long battles that may require the use of Invincible, but Invincible is usually followed quickly by death because of just how much enmity it generates to the point that no manner of any outside source of damage or curing can steal hate off the PLD.

This job is just so confusing for all the wrong reasons when it is just a guy with a sword and shield and a little bit of healing magic.


lol such a good pasta.

PLD tanks aren't good the higher you get in exp PTs. PLD shines on prolonged fights(IE: HNMs). You speak of gearing for damage, then say you only gave yourself "+15DEX and +8~10STR, +10att and +10acc" which isn't enough to give a noticeable improvement. Haubergeon alone gives 10 attack/acc and 5STR/DEX. PCC/Spectacles is another accuracy boost. Sniper's Rings, Coral/Merman's Earrings, there's much more gear where you can stack stats than just the small numbers you listed. Regardless PLD will never get up to the numbers of regular DD because you don't have the Job Traits such as Attack/Acc Bonus or offensive JAs. Utilizing your limited MP pool to help keep hate is what a PLD is supposed to do, both in exp and endgame. If you're running out of MP very quickly, you need a change in approach. Just because you have the MP for a Cure IV doesn't mean you need to use it all on that. Speaking of sword WS, WAR/NIN with Ridill/Joyeuse used to be one of the better DDs before the 2H update(which is the iteration we have on Nasomi). Again lack of offensive JAs/Traits are the reason for your lack of damage, not the WS selection itself.

Also, a good DD is going to make a PLD almost worthless in an exp PT slot, that's the way it's always been in era and on Nasomi.


I said gear that was reasonably affordable. I have no idea how long I'd have to play to get enough gil for the best-stat maxing equipment like snipers and haubergeon and these other AH items at obscene prices. I can't even get a koenig shield because of how badly the prices are stacked on it. 300,000+gil for a shield ultimately synthed from commonly available materials repurchased from the AH under 90,000gil. The rest of your post was more or less just confirmation of what I'd said. "Before how things currently are, sword was good!", without regard that dual wielding two "often attacks more than once" weapons is why that combination would be good, and still that PLD can't use Ridill at all.

The point of all this is that, it shouldn't be such a bad job. With the way enmity and damage calculation works here, the only niche it actually fills is "there were no WHM's lfp but it's okay cause these mobs aren't so hard that we can't get by with only occasional cures". If it's somehow appropriately "era" that this job is as bad as it is here on Nasomi, then there's nothing but good reason for why retail ever received further updates, and further a poor waste of player time for being given the option to play a job that may as well not work like PUP. Once I reached Whitegate, I was beginning to feel a strain on PLD that no amount of my own "playerskill" could seem to bridge -- and I did some research and discovered Reprisal and thought, "hey - wow - this looks like a cool spell! This would make a big difference for PLD!", so i scrounged up what gil I could and bought it from the vendor in Al'Zahbi, used the scroll, tested it out, zoned back to whitegate, and it was gone -- a completely useful thing that could have made PLD not suck so much, "partially" disabled on Nasomi cause it is "out of era", to waste your gil and time and expectations.

Nasomi ultimately seems like a custom server, not really an accurate "era" server, and would probably benefit greatly from being better customized. If ya'll just hate DNC and Trusts and the odd PvP modes, then why not just exclude those things but keep everything else.

_________________
I'm not responding anymore, just cause half the replies I get are just one more dummy trying to start their own conversation/argument about something else entirely.

Pretty sure jabberwacky can keep a train of thought more consistent than this forum.


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