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 Post subject: Re: Eng Game Roles
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:31 am 
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Aeroo wrote:
Nabutso wrote:
Aeroo BTFO


Aight.


Mob defense on retail can be established by averaging the highest and lowest hit out of about thirty with capped fstr. Accounting for weapon rank you can find how much your average hit deviates from the weapon's listed damage to establish PDIF and with your attack as a known value the mobs defense also becomes a known value.

Aeroo I will personally bet you 20M fafnir's defense is not off from retail by more than 10% as established by the above method.


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 Post subject: Re: Eng Game Roles
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:19 pm 
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Deadwing wrote:
Aeroo wrote:
Nabutso wrote:
Aeroo BTFO


Aight.


Mob defense on retail can be established by averaging the highest and lowest hit out of about thirty with capped fstr. Accounting for weapon rank you can find how much your average hit deviates from the weapon's listed damage to establish PDIF and with your attack as a known value the mobs defense also becomes a known value.

Aeroo I will personally bet you 20M fafnir's defense is not off from retail by more than 10% as established by the above method.


You aren't a trustworthy person that I would make a bet with. For all I know the actual 'defense' of the mob is correct and you placed some -PDT or phalanx effect on them. I know nothing of coding but what I do know is fully merited fully geared relic sams here on nasomi can barely crack half the damage on hnms that retail lesser geared Hagun sams could.

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 Post subject: Re: Eng Game Roles
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:59 pm 
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https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/39766 ... -or-MB-dmg

This is a thread from 2006ish.

There are some pretty crazy Kirin numbers from RNGs in it like upwards of 1.5k+. As someone who has RNG leveled and pretty good gear, I've never hit even close to that on Kirin. There are issues with monster defense/physical damage calculations.

I actually retired my RNG until these numbers are fixed because the job is useless compared to a BLM on anything that matters.

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 Post subject: Re: Eng Game Roles
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:57 am 
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sov wrote:
Fluxi wrote:
It's a shame that this server/era is pretty much "Blm, Smn or go home", with DRK chiming in on some stuff, if you want to dd.


That’s how retail was for HNMs lol. No need to have faffhogg spam wing for little damage hits.

As others say though, in order to get in an endgame shell at least have 1 of these jobs leveled. BLM RDM WHM BRD COR


You could be a DD and still have a place in endgame in retail. They would rotate dd's out after the ws. The issue here is balance. If few jobs dominate the several jobs in this game, balancing issues may be at play. I'll find out more when I reach end game here though, to be fair.


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 Post subject: Re: Eng Game Roles
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:36 pm 
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I didn't realize there were people that believed Fafnir/Nidhogg's defense is correctly coded on this server.

That's adorable.

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 Post subject: Re: Eng Game Roles
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:25 pm 
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A good DD has a spot in pretty much any activity that isn't a Wyrm, Toau HNM, or Fafhogg. Melee are valid on all of Sky, Sea, limbus, and Dynamis. The thing is, you really want to have that mage flexibility in there before you try to enter an endgame shell. Easy as pie to take COR to 75 which, if geared properly, can carry dmg hard in experience parties and offer brd level support.

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 Post subject: Re: Eng Game Roles
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:45 pm 
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The only melee DD EG shells want is Garuda ;;

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 Post subject: Re: Eng Game Roles
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:06 pm 
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Posts: 75
It really is depressing how the end game of this game has really always been slanted to BLM, SMN, or gtfo. I leveled COR because I thought it would just be a fun alternative to my old character in retail (RNG). I appreciate that it is useful end game but I think its still bs that melees cant participate fully in HNMs. FFXIV is straight NUmmorpg trash but at least it was balanced in end game for all jobs.


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 Post subject: Re: Eng Game Roles
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 4:34 am
Posts: 127
Viktoriya wrote:
I think there is something seriously wrong with how Kirin takes physical damage on this server vs a test server I've been cross testing on. Physical bloodpacts seem to be also cut almost by half on Kirin vs Tiamat/Jorm/Vrtra/PW/Khim on Nasomi. Ranger damage on Nasomi vs Kirin is terrible vs even retail standards from the 75 ERA. I have screenshots from basic AH rangers pulled from "Fapworthy SC+MB" thread on BG where a E.BOW RNG drops a 1500 sidewinder on Kirin in 2006. I'm a relic ranger, used red curry bun, had double minuet with berserk on and had my highest was 1005 slug shot on Nasomi's current iteration of Kirin. The only reason why it was even remotely high was because defense down proc'ed by the Relic Gaxe from a war in the alliance.

On the server I've been testing physical damage on, without a brd, same gear, berserk and red curry bun. I shoot almost 40-60 damage more than on Nasomi with a brd and was hitting 900 slugshots consistently on this server without a BRD. On normal sky god fights on Nasomi, my damage seemed about what is expected given my gear level.

I noticed this same odd damage taken phenomenon also occurs on Fafnir. SMN is terrible on that fight vs mobs that are higher level like Tiamat, Khim, Jorm and Vrtra. I'm not exactly sure if this is some -% physical damage taken mod that was accidentally put on these mobs or what. I just know something is off here, it is only 3 mobs on Nasomi that are acting this way, Kirin/Nid/Fafnir.


I don't think those numbers for Kirin are that convincing. The BG screenshot is an obvious Flashy Shot, and a post-nerf RNG dealing 900 damage consistently to Kirin without BRD or Flashy Shot is more proof of that Kirin being weaker than it should be. If retail RNG was dealing 900 post-nerf to Kirin without Flashy Shot/BRD, that 1,505 would have been a joke and not an epeen screenshot that other people were impressed by.

The base damage gulf between relic gun & PPA E.Bow is not huge, and PPA Ebow would mitigate it somewhat with the extra 24~25 ranged attack it has over Anni. If you had flashy shot on your 1005 slug you'd have been right in the ballpark of the BG screenshot, and if you had more buffs (like if you were TP burning Kirin and had SV Minuets+STR Etudes + Angon + Dia, etc.) you'd have surpassed it easily. Those types of screenshots aren't super useful anyway since you never know what buffs/debuffs/etc. are used. Really the retail numbers from that thread line up much more closely with the numbers here than whatever test server you're using.

Also Nid has that weird spammable 2hr thing that beefs up his defense iirc. Fafnir numbers could be interesting though. It's all a bit of a moot point though because with BLM being so much stronger than it should be, there's no real reason to bring melee to anything that you can give TP to.


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 Post subject: Re: Eng Game Roles
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:47 am 
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Posts: 127
Viktoriya wrote:

It still doesn't explain SMN physical BP's being terrible on Nasomi Kirin and Faf vs mobs that are higher level. It is cut by almost half on average on Kirin and Fafnir. There is something going on that should not be going on with how those mobs take damage. I've tested Nid when that boost wears off, it doesn't last that long and it replicates damage taken like Fafnir and Kirin. This is only limited to these 3 mobs. I'm just wondering why this happens on only these 3 mobs.


I'm not much of an expert on SMN but didn't people use that Diabolos BP that was very reliable (Nether Blast I think?) or the Wind merit thingy for Kirin back in the day? I bet they resist like crazy here? I think on retail there was some patch (or it was always that way, idk never cared to level smn much) or something that made skill matter for acc/macc for BPs, but I haven't bothered with SMN so I don't really know if that's the case here.


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