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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:39 am 
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Kazen wrote:
ShroomSwiss wrote:
I'm not sure how fishing is even brought up into this. The rule states "Multi-boxing HELM Functions from the same IP. One HELM per household."
HELM = Harvesting
Excavating
Logging
Mining
Each of those have few and specific locations that people can farm the points at. So I can see it being unfair to multibox and hogging up those locations.
Fishing however has no set number of points, a person can literally fish on top of another fisherman. I don't see it fitting into this category of (HELM).


Nas doesn't want people fishing on 2 accounts at the same time. I can see why he wants it this way although I do not agree with him. Trying to change rules that are already set is fighting a losing battle.

It's not that I'm trying to fight against it. It's more about why is it not posted in the rules if this is the case. Like there is clearly nothing stated about fishing in the rules. It's his server, he can herd us like the sheep we are on it. I'd just personally like to see something from him about it as opposed to what others say is right or wrong. No offence to anyone.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:10 am 
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I'm going to ignore the comment from Wolffhardt about gaol and respond to another one of his statements:
Wolffhardt wrote:
Nas can basically do whatever he wants without recourse.

Wolffhardt, do you really see us as slaves at play? I think we would agree that Nasomi wants people to enjoy his playground; functional rules (including the ones that sustain a healthy economy) are part of what make that playground attractive to us. You can see that Nasomi's choices flow accordingly like a river "sedulously seeking the shortest course to the sea" (Thoreau). Allow me to gently urge you to recognize the power in your relationships. No community is without recourse to arbitrary action. Not even in jail. If Nasomi did as you say he could, how long do you think it would take before the server turned into a ghost town? Or, to look at it from an outsider's perspective, how long do you think it would take until another server became more attractive because its GMs don't do whatever they want?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:20 am 
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ShroomSwiss wrote:
It's not that I'm trying to fight against it. It's more about why is it not posted in the rules if this is the case. Like there is clearly nothing stated about fishing in the rules. It's his server, he can herd us like the sheep we are on it. I'd just personally like to see something from him about it as opposed to what others say is right or wrong. No offense to anyone.

Nabutso has made comments on multiple occasions about Nasomi's way with words. Nasomi simply does not write rules with a high degree of precision. There are other examples that I won't get into here, but it is a recurring issue. That doesn't mean that the rules are not functional. That's why we're here discussing this. Personally, I'd love to do some pro bono work with copyediting the website's foundational documents, but I'm sure Nasomi has his own reasons (DIY?) for keeping it as is.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:37 am 
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Metzger wrote:
Could I... have Fishing 100 on both characters assuming that they've always fished on separate occasions?
For the most part, yes. Just make sure that you're not doing anything with one angler that favorably affects your other angler's fishing.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:35 am 
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ShroomSwiss wrote:
It's not that I'm trying to fight against it. It's more about why is it not posted in the rules if this is the case. Like there is clearly nothing stated about fishing in the rules. It's his server, he can herd us like the sheep we are on it. I'd just personally like to see something from him about it as opposed to what others say is right or wrong. No offence to anyone.


Yes and until he made a server message/called it out in IRC, I was fishing for Angel Skins on both my characters at the same time. I agree, it should be posted if it's against the rules, adding F on the wiki/rules page must have slipped his mind. Again, his server, his rules, just trying to relay the message that server message conveyed.

From what I've seen, Nas is more lenient on things that aren't concrete in the rules page. However I've seen him delevel characters for lesser infractions.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:34 am 
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ShroomSwiss wrote:
I'm not sure how fishing is even brought up into this. The rule states "Multi-boxing HELM Functions from the same IP. One HELM per household."
HELM =
Harvesting
Excavating
Logging
Mining
Each of those have few and specific locations that people can farm the points at. So I can see it being unfair to multibox and hogging up those locations.
Fishing however has no set number of points, a person can literally fish on top of another fisherman. I don't see it fitting into this category of (HELM).



Fishing is brought into this because it’s included in the rule.

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...TopShelf told Nas to roll back all your ZNM gear, do the gilpocalypse and nerf Fishing/RNG into the ground.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:36 am 
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Julia wrote:
I'm going to ignore the comment from Wolffhardt about gaol and respond to another one of his statements:
Wolffhardt wrote:
Nas can basically do whatever he wants without recourse.

Wolffhardt, do you really see us as slaves at play? I think we would agree that Nasomi wants people to enjoy his playground; functional rules (including the ones that sustain a healthy economy) are part of what make that playground attractive to us. You can see that Nasomi's choices flow accordingly like a river "sedulously seeking the shortest course to the sea" (Thoreau). Allow me to gently urge you to recognize the power in your relationships. No community is without recourse to arbitrary action. Not even in jail. If Nasomi did as you say he could, how long do you think it would take before the server turned into a ghost town? Or, to look at it from an outsider's perspective, how long do you think it would take until another server became more attractive because its GMs don't do whatever they want?



I can tell you’re new here, so enjoy your time on the server. It’s a lot of fun. Don’t break the rules, and you won’t see how little Nas gives a shit about your opinion of them.

That part about a better server coming along isn’t a realistic threat at this point, and he’s aware of that. He’s not a monster driving slaves, however we are playing here 100% at his whim. He can turn it all of tomorrow, and there’s not a single thing to do about it. If he thinks you’re breaking the rules, he will impose punishment. There’s no arbitration or appealing if you disagree. You can use whatever hyperbolic analogy you want to describe that. I appreciate a good Thoreau quote as much as the next guy, but no. His decisions follow the exact flow he feels like.

You should be a union organizer, that might be more your speed.

I gently urge you to recognize the value of your time, and not continue this futile conversation.

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Kazen wrote:
...TopShelf told Nas to roll back all your ZNM gear, do the gilpocalypse and nerf Fishing/RNG into the ground.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:26 pm 
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Posts: 187
Sounds like there's nothing in place to tell if someone's mining on dual boxes.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:07 pm 
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epics wrote:
Sounds like there's nothing in place to tell if someone's mining on dual boxes.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:20 pm 
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Posts: 242
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Testing the limits of the rules sounds like a profound mistake. When you're invited to a party you don't go into rooms you're told not to, even if they're not locked.

But for OP, to be on the safe side I would single-box any time I'm heading to an area for HELMF, looking for a HELM point or extracting the HELMF resource and re-open the second client only when I'm done and ready to kill mobs again (takes about 10 seconds).

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