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 Post subject: Re: power leveling
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:26 am 
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Posts: 216
lockecole777 wrote:
No one's saying WHM isnt needed endgame, WHM is invaluable in endgame. People are saying in EXP parties where you can choose the enemy you fight, RDM >>>>> WHM in most of the camps that are chosen on Nasomi. WHM does not have dispel, it cannot sustain MP, it cannot enfeeble as well in a high paced TP burn.

I play RDM late 40's right now and no matter how versatile RDM is there's no way that an EXP party can survive with a single mage without over 50% downtime. Besides, doing all magic work constantly making sure everyone is buffed and refreshed as well as debuffing and healing on top of that is too stressful for both the player and the mp pool (even with refresh). I think we can agree that an EXP party needs at least two mages and at least I believe that a WHM+RDM combo works better than 2xRDM because you need -ga and -na spells that only WHM has (though you get that in a limited capacity if one of the RDMs happens to be a /WHM). Also below level 38 you need WHM for raising.


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 Post subject: Re: power leveling
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:37 am 
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Posts: 475
Nightcoder wrote:
lockecole777 wrote:
No one's saying WHM isnt needed endgame, WHM is invaluable in endgame. People are saying in EXP parties where you can choose the enemy you fight, RDM >>>>> WHM in most of the camps that are chosen on Nasomi. WHM does not have dispel, it cannot sustain MP, it cannot enfeeble as well in a high paced TP burn.

I play RDM late 40's right now and no matter how versatile RDM is there's no way that an EXP party can survive with a single mage without over 50% downtime. Besides, doing all magic work constantly making sure everyone is buffed and refreshed as well as debuffing and healing on top of that is too stressful for both the player and the mp pool (even with refresh). I think we can agree that an EXP party needs at least two mages and at least I believe that a WHM+RDM combo works better than 2xRDM because you need -ga and -na spells that only WHM has (though you get that in a limited capacity if one of the RDMs happens to be a /WHM). Also below level 38 you need WHM for raising.


Literally every good TP burn level 50+ has one mage, and only one mage. And 99% of the time, that mage is a RDM. RDM + BRD = enough mana to sustain a party that supplies itself with a good NIN tank + /NIN DPS, and fights appropriate enemies that don't have a lot of outgoing damage. Camps are the way they are for a reason. Bats, crawlers, flies to an extent, are all picked because theyre easy to handle with a minimal mage setup. I find it odd that you havent experienced a true tp burn than can sustain chain 50+ with just a rdm healing and are on Nasomi.


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 Post subject: Re: power leveling
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Posts: 2629
Nightcoder wrote:
Not needing WHM after level 41 is so untrue, and I'm saying it as RDM. RDM can never truly be a main healer because they don't have Curaga, meaning that a nasty AoE could wipe the party without the RDM having enough time to respond. They also don't get Cure V so they'll struggle at endgame. They also only get the basic Raise and at high levels that XP loss really starts to hurt. An RDM/WHM is a decent healer though, that's why I also leveled it as needed - and hated every moment of it.
I believe that a good party should have both a WHM and a RDM, with the WHM being the healer. The RDM should stick to what they're good at - Keep the WHM and themselves refreshed at all times, debuff the mobs and help cure if the shit hits the fan. I've had enough parties like that and they all work fine with hardly any downtime since the refreshes make sure the WHM never runs out of MP.

Regarding PLs, it's basically what everyone said. Yeah, for a brand new player a PL can be hindering but mind that most people in the dunes are not brand new players - some are leveling their 3rd or 4th job, some are leveling their alt (in which case the PL will usually be their own main) and some are people who played retail back at the era and already know the basics. In these cases it makes sense that they just want to get past these levels ASAP so they'll want a PL. Right now I need to level a level 21 BLM and the mere though of having to dodge goblins again at the dunes makes me want to do pretty much anything else.
I do understand why a WHM specifically would feel like that since the PL's main job is to heal, a WHM will feel useless in many cases. Party members are aware of that but they still want you because they know they'll need you later on. If WHM is your first job then you should kindly refuse any such party and explain that you're trying to learn for yourself.


WHM isn't needed from level 41-74. Thus the problem.

as for your second post, that's just not remotely true or how it's played here for about 90% of the parties. RDM, BRD or COR, tank, DD, DD, DD

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...TopShelf told Nas to roll back all your ZNM gear, do the gilpocalypse and nerf Fishing/RNG into the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: power leveling
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:27 pm 
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Nightcoder wrote:
I play RDM late 40's right now and no matter how versatile RDM is there's no way that an EXP party can survive with a single mage without over 50% downtime. Besides, doing all magic work constantly making sure everyone is buffed and refreshed as well as debuffing and healing on top of that is too stressful for both the player and the mp pool (even with refresh). I think we can agree that an EXP party needs at least two mages and at least I believe that a WHM+RDM combo works better than 2xRDM


I had 2 EXP parties in Boyadah Tree this weekend where I was solo healing RDM with no support for a good portion of it, and we managed just fine with very minimal downtime (because our pullers didn't let me have any downtime lol). This was on Crawlers (spam Poison and Cocoon, so I needed to constantly stand up to Poisona and Dispel) and Flies (Poison and Cursed Sphere, so Poisona and occasionally Barwatera). It was definitely stressful for me lol, but we didn't have any problems.

I would certainly prefer a Support or a WHM, but its not impossible without.

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 Post subject: Re: power leveling
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:56 pm 
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I'm pretty sure I was in one of those parties with you on my RNG Kharlan - if so, I just wanted to give you props for being a badass RDM :)

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 Post subject: Re: power leveling
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:16 pm 
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Kharlan wrote:
RDM's have had thousands of EXP parties in Boyadah Tree where we solo heal with no support for a good portion of it, and we manage just fine with very minimal downtime (because our pullers didn't let us have any downtime lol). This was on Crawlers (spam Poison and Cocoon, so we need to constantly stand up to Poisona and Dispel) and Flies (Poison and Cursed Sphere, so Poisona and Barwatera).

I would certainly prefer a PL, but its not impossible without.

Fixed!


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 Post subject: Re: power leveling
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:32 pm 
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Julia wrote:
Kharlan wrote:
RDM's have had thousands of EXP parties in Boyadah Tree where we solo heal with no support for a good portion of it, and we manage just fine with very minimal downtime (because our pullers didn't let us have any downtime lol). This was on Crawlers (spam Poison and Cocoon, so we need to constantly stand up to Poisona and Dispel) and Flies (Poison and Cursed Sphere, so Poisona and Barwatera).

I would certainly prefer a PL, but its not impossible without.

Fixed!


LOL yeah basically

Armaddon wrote:
I'm pretty sure I was in one of those parties with you on my RNG Kharlan - if so, I just wanted to give you props for being a badass RDM :)


Thanks!! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: power leveling
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:35 pm
Posts: 2629
Julia wrote:
Kharlan wrote:
RDM's have had thousands of EXP parties in Boyadah Tree where we solo heal with no support for a good portion of it, and we manage just fine with very minimal downtime (because our pullers didn't let us have any downtime lol). This was on Crawlers (spam Poison and Cocoon, so we need to constantly stand up to Poisona and Dispel) and Flies (Poison and Cursed Sphere, so Poisona and Barwatera).

I would certainly prefer a PL, but its not impossible without.

Fixed!


this made me lol

i agree.

_________________
Kazen wrote:
...TopShelf told Nas to roll back all your ZNM gear, do the gilpocalypse and nerf Fishing/RNG into the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: power leveling
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:26 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:38 pm
Posts: 216
Kharlan wrote:
I had 2 EXP parties in Boyadah Tree this weekend where I was solo healing RDM with no support for a good portion of it, and we managed just fine with very minimal downtime (because our pullers didn't let me have any downtime lol). This was on Crawlers (spam Poison and Cocoon, so I needed to constantly stand up to Poisona and Dispel) and Flies (Poison and Cursed Sphere, so Poisona and occasionally Barwatera). It was definitely stressful for me lol, but we didn't have any problems.

I would certainly prefer a Support or a WHM, but its not impossible without.

Then you must be /WHM if you have Poisona.


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 Post subject: Re: power leveling
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:41 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:51 pm
Posts: 475
The fact that you pointed out that /WHM subjob can replace a WHM isn't helping your point buddy. I honestly don't know what you're arguing at this point.


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