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 Post subject: Re: LOL these HQ rates
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:04 pm 
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Metzger wrote:
Hey Jacky, my 6 stack no-skill up stint can be found here with screenshots viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6104&start=70

There should be well over 100 synths there. It's important to note that I was crafting 2 levels from cap, crafting without support and without +skill gear.

Also in that thread is the next crafting session I had which went as follows:

My skill: 86. Target synth: Wamoura Silk (88). Skill difference: 1-2 levels (I hit 87 during this).

Synths: 105
Breaks: 27
Skillups: 12 * 0.1
HQ: 1

Skill-up %: 11.4%

My skill: 87. Target synth: Wamoura Cloth (90). Skill difference: 3 levels.

Synths: 62
Breaks: 21
Skillups: 6 * 0.1
HQ: 0

Skill-up %: 9.6%

From this session, over a total of 167 synths my skill-up rate was 10.78%.

From those numbers being 3 levels from the craft didn't seem that much different from being 2 levels from the craft. That being said, the only way I've been able to push through 90+ is by ignoring any recipe that is less than 2 levels from cap (at this level I still sort of can). That means I didn't do wamoura cloth (Or I did, but I started at 87). I skipped rainbow cloth after crafting stacks and stacks with no skill-ups, and I started errant slops / dance shoes at 88 even though they were much more expensive on paper than the 2 level gap alternative. It's not all sunshine and rainbows but it is better. I crafted approximately 23 rainbow capes at 6 from cap with standard support with 1 skill-up and 1 HQ.

Even the results of the two tests above are crazy inconsistent though. One session is over 100 synths with no skill-ups and the other is 167 synths with 18 skill-ups. I really don't know what to make of this spread. Even at 10% skill-up rate going 0/100+ is incredibly improbable. Speaking with other crafters it seems that others have also experienced this feast or famine effect, but without numbers and context to back it up it's really difficult to figure out what's going on.

Also, every time someone chimes in that 10% skill-up rate is okay makes me question my sanity a little. Skilling up on dalmaticas at level 98-100, that would mean you would need 25,000,000 gil on behemoth hides alone, for ONE level. At 2 hides per kill, 50 Behemoths would have to die for one clothcrafter to raise one level between 98-100. And that's not even factoring in the cost of Siren's Macrame, of which you'd need 60,000,000 in siren's hair alone. Get out of here with that it's okay shit, unless we're 100% abandoning any semblance to retail.


Just one of many reasons the ENM loot pool on Like the Wind should be brought back. Galateias for the Blessed Briaults would help you out a ton. The only comfort you can take is that you can stop at 99. There is not one single worthwhile synth that is exlusive for us 100's other than getting a t3 on mohbwa scarf(whoopdedoo). You can obtain 105 with gear, support, and furniture from 99 and it is no longer possible to reach 107 at all so there really will be no point in going all the way to 100. That is quite awful luck you had on that wamoura.. Some of you new CC's would throw up if I had some ss's of my old skill up logs. I got 2 .3 skill ups and a .2 while 99. FeelsBadMan.
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 Post subject: Re: LOL these HQ rates
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:11 pm 
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Aeroo wrote:
Just one of many reasons the ENM loot pool on Like the Wind should be brought back. Galateias for the Blessed Briaults would help you out a ton. The only comfort you can take is that you can stop at 99. There is not one single worthwhile synth that is exlusive for us 100's other than getting a t3 on mohbwa scarf(whoopdedoo). You can obtain 105 with gear, support, and furniture from 99 and it is no longer possible to reach 107 at all so there really will be no point in going all the way to 100. That is quite awful luck you had on that wamoura.. Some of you new CC's would throw up if I had some ss's of my old skill up logs. I got 2 .3 skill ups and a .2 while 99. FeelsBadMan.
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I appreciate that, but I mean at this point it's all hypothetical. I actually had to stop at wamoura's for a while as it was costing me 400k a level at 8k a synth and while I could afford it it's just too demoralising. It's hard to make sense of information since it seems a lot of crafters chime in only to spread confusion without providing any numbers. In the last thread we had, Deadwing reported needing 226 blessed briaults / dalmaticas for the 98-100 push and then sent me a /tell later on that day to say that he also thinks skill-up rates are broken on the low side by being about half the rate they should be. Huh?

It's easy enough to see that skilling up is harder now than it was pre-crafting change, and that's fine. That was kind of an abomination. I mean it's been a while since I crafted during that but if I remember correctly you could pretty much lower or higher your skill level depending on crystal / day / moon phase. I'm not even comparing the current rates to that which it seems were even softer than retail. But doing research and seeing people on retail hit 100 CC with approx 30synths/level, providing links of a 25% skill-up rate, getting garbage rates on this server AND having people come in and tell you it's okay is just straight up mind-boggling. I even considered the fact that I alone was bugged at one point.


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 Post subject: Re: LOL these HQ rates
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:03 pm 
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Posts: 28
Metzger wrote:
having people come in and tell you it's okay is just straight up mind-boggling.


I don't know if you're referring to the people telling you this without evidence, but as you can see i've shown you the picture from todays synth and the data from the last 7 days on a newly started craft since some people and also you yourself were asking for more evidence above 60+ post crafting patch instead of just "talking" about experience.

My skill up rate was absoheckinglutely retail accurate where i also had CC at 99 and i felt no difference in the skill up process, yours however looks like shit and completely random.
Doesn't mean that every crafter on this server will experience the same you or i did and i swear if i'd level CC to 90 on my alt the next 7 days i could get a complete different skill up%, who knows, fact is that some things are definitely off and random.
GL in convincing Nasomi tho with just a few hundred examples, took a hecking year to convince him that the claim system was broken and that was only possible with Nabutso acting as a middleman.


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 Post subject: Re: LOL these HQ rates
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:51 pm 
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Posts: 27
Jacky wrote:
Metzger wrote:
having people come in and tell you it's okay is just straight up mind-boggling.


I don't know if you're referring to the people telling you this without evidence, but as you can see i've shown you the picture from todays synth and the data from the last 7 days on a newly started craft since some people and also you yourself were asking for more evidence above 60+ post crafting patch instead of just "talking" about experience.

My skill up rate was absoheckinglutely retail accurate where i also had CC at 99 and i felt no difference in the skill up process, yours however looks like shit and completely random.
Doesn't mean that every crafter on this server will experience the same you or i did and i swear if i'd level CC to 90 on my alt the next 7 days i could get a complete different skill up%, who knows, fact is that some things are definitely off and random.
GL in convincing Nasomi tho with just a few hundred examples, took a hecking year to convince him that the claim system was broken and that was only possible with Nabutso acting as a middleman.


Sorry man, I should've specified that I wasn't referring to you. I really appreciate actually that you not only provided numbers but screenshots to go with it as well. I was referring to some older crafters that have joined in on both this and the previous thread to suggest that 10% is actually 'quite nice' with no basis. I also crafted in retail, and I distinctly remember bitching that I got unlucky during 95-96 because it took me 50ish synths. 50 synths a level sounds like a dream compared to my experience here for the past 14 clothcraft levels.

I also appreciate that variation plays a huge part in crafting. I know of another clothcrafter who recently beasted CC to almost 90 in a month. At level 88, I crafted over 30 synths with 0 skill-ups and tried again 2 days later to get 2 * 0.1 back-to-back and a whole level in less than 50 synths. To me the spread seems to be too wide and not to be accounted for by standard variation but I'm not a mathematician. To go 0/100 at even a 10% hq chance is EXTREMELY unlikely. It's possible that other factors may also play into it that I'm not aware of or haven't logged during tests such as day/direction etc but I just operate as if those do not affect crafting at all. Maybe it has to do with specific synths though I doubt it. Or maybe I have been just that unlucky. The best I can do is log synths and try see what's what.

As for convincing Nasomi or whatever, I don't really have any hopes for that and I'm slowly levelling either way. I'd hope that at least he's aware that the numbers seem suspicious, not only of skill-up rates but break rates as well but that doesn't seem to be the case.


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 Post subject: Re: LOL these HQ rates
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:18 pm 
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ok guys

what if nas DID change crafting skillups and jacky is a newer crafter than metzger

big if true

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 Post subject: Re: LOL these HQ rates
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:39 am
Posts: 194
I will be doing a synth soon at 98 which is 99. Got a probably well over 100 tries. What do you guys think would be the expected skill up rate? 10%? 5%?

Also it is always interesting to see how differently some ppl think should the skill up rate be. Is there some data from retail that said what you could expect at which level which some ppl base their expectation on for nasomi? For example I think it is totally ok to get 10% skill up rate in the higher levels but I don't know.


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 Post subject: Re: LOL these HQ rates
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:28 pm 
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Values taken in a long-lost forum post that averaged rates from retail forum posts at various levels: around 20% skillup rate.

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 Post subject: Re: LOL these HQ rates
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:27 am 
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The old system made you think and plan, you know like a video game. Now it's nothing but a shitty slot machine. Square dropped the ball by not having an in depth system. Whoever created the system of moon/day/direction picked that ball up. Some people just couldn't accept the fact that this game, as it was on retail, still could've been improved upon. So this is what we get now. GL.

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 Post subject: Re: LOL these HQ rates
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:43 am 
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Aeroo wrote:
The old system made you think and plan, you know like a video game. Now it's nothing but a shitty slot machine. Square dropped the ball by not having an in depth system. Whoever created the system of moon/day/direction picked that ball up. Some people just couldn't accept the fact that this game, as it was on retail, still could've been improved upon. So this is what we get now. GL.

Say what you want about modern game casualization etc, but I like that I can treat crafting as a hobby and not my job. I like that I can compete in at least one place on the server without making real-world sacrifices. I prefer not having to plan my life around FFXI days and moon phases.

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 Post subject: Re: LOL these HQ rates
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:55 am 
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Nabutso wrote:
Aeroo wrote:
The old system made you think and plan, you know like a video game. Now it's nothing but a shitty slot machine. Square dropped the ball by not having an in depth system. Whoever created the system of moon/day/direction picked that ball up. Some people just couldn't accept the fact that this game, as it was on retail, still could've been improved upon. So this is what we get now. GL.

Say what you want about modern game casualization etc, but I like that I can treat crafting as a hobby and not my job. I like that I can compete in at least one place on the server without making real-world sacrifices. I prefer not having to plan my life around FFXI days and moon phases.


Yea well it seems youd have been better off doing all your hq attempts on full moon lightsday in that system than doing anything at any time in this one. So your point is moot.

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