I'll ignore the fact that you used rekt without a huge amount of irony and move on. My point is, you're comparing aspects of FFXI with UO that dont exist. Try comparing UO's shit aggro system or easy ass AI that could be abused to the point where you could kill just about anything with pets. Suddenly that games a joke now when you compare it to FFXI and doesnt take any skill. So it simply has to do with what aspects of a game you try and compare.

Just because you came in here with a shitty comparison and "won" the argument doesnt mean anything. I could come in here and shit on everyone's favorite PvE game by saying Street Fighter V has a way higher skill cap, but no one would give a shit, because its a pointless comparison. Just like no one here gives a shit about what you have to say.

Having the right information is a skill itself. "Good" crafters were ones that "knew" the moon/day/direction system.

What dodi says about the information being figured out and all that really takes away from that, and yes, makes the game easier - requiring less skill because getting that information is so much easier.

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I, too, think hitting a baseball with a bat is harder than gardening Steena.

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True strike on FPS and MOBA.

I played during zilart launch. All I can do is compare my personal experience with the older games OP posted. I chime in my opinion that perhaps OP isn't crazy and it makes sense why he has this initial impression of the game. I never said times weren't different, but I did say my personal experience with skill required were pretty easy.

Then again it's a final fantasy game, we don't exactly play it for the difficulty. We like the job system and party based play. For me, it was a fancy chatroom where I could grow my character with friends. From the release of zilart all it took was knowledge from the wiki, time, and tenacity. Maybe stunning took skill? Healing perhaps? That's about it. As long as you listened to the party/alliance leader things usually went fine.

You could play the game and type in chat and have conversations. That was the appeal for me, personally. Other games that took more skill obviously required more attention to the mechanics and there was less conversation to be had.

Nabutso graces us with his presence.

All you are trying to do is redefine what skill is. Is Wisdom the same as Intelligence? Is Agility the same as Dexterity? Come on now...The only claim people can come up with is the skill of archiving, organizing, and retaining knowledge.

I can come up with a better argument myself. Let's take a BCNM. You have all the knowledge, you know what to do, but it is still hard because you have to execute things perfectly. Sure, when the hectaeyes bcnm came out with magic resist and people had trouble with it. I did it with RNG,BLU,RDM before i heard of anyone else doing it and destroyed it. I suppose that took some skill pull off in figuring it out? It's not that I don't see where yall are trying to come from....but

By and large, the majority of the game does not take much in the way of skill-based play. Which is all I was saying and people got their panties in a bunch. What's sad is I can come up with something better than y'all have; against my own argument.

Things like "skill" are just not as black and white as you seem to say it is, but at the same time you're clearly noticing that. No one is redefining anything - we just know that there is more to it than going through the menus and hitting macros.

Mechanical skill, your ability to properly hit the right keys at the right time to get the result you're aiming for, which seems to be what you're referring to, yeah, does not have a very high skillcap in FFXI.

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You say a game has no skill, and then go and pat yourself on the back for something you claim to have figured the strategy out to (that BCNM doesnt have magic resist btw, as BLMs do it easily, and so does NIN/RDM).

No one is redefining skill, we're redefining what your opinion of skill is. By your definition a chess player who's spent years honing his craft and acquiring knowledge on the game isn't skilled.

Sure, if you want to talk specifics about PvE and PvP. But they are both MMOs. You are redirecting a generalization and focusing on Ultima Online vs FFXI. Which wasn't even my main point. You've turned the premise of the entire conversation into an enmity-filled dick waving contest. I only brought up UO because of the "overestimation" skill claim and the fact that OP has played it. It wasn't meant UO vs. FFXI on PvE specific mechanics. UO was used to help define what took skill in an early MMO before FFXI.

Point is, FFXI doesn't and never has require much in the way of actual skill. Plus the mechanics that do require skill are largely ignored and not used. It's a fun and fancy chatroom. You confuse my objectivity of the game as a personal attack on yourself, and feel the need to get snarky.

You miss the mark again my friend. When nasomi released the BCNM on this server it they eyes DID have higher magic resist than retail. So, you are already wrong. Plus the point was I could come up with something possibly related to THE definition of skill when all you spoke of was archiving knowledge.

skill (skĭl)►
n. Proficiency, facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience. See Synonyms at ability.
n. An art, trade, or technique, particularly one requiring use of the hands or body.
n. A developed talent or ability: writing skills.

A chess player cultivates tactical strategy. An FFXI player cultivates... reading and comprehension skills? A minority of players critical thinking skills?

So the only skill yall have even established here are what? Trial and Error Skills? Archiving skills? Reading and comprehension skills... which seem to be very lacking in this community?

FFXI has no tactical strategy?

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