I mean, How long does it takes to build a relic NOW, and how long it took 2-3 years ago? The excuse of "Just take it is not my fault i started playing before you. ~ Fid" If we are going to use that statement to defend why you guys shouldnt get Relics rerolled... then Keeping PWs drops should be the same just new player have to suck it up. And i'm sad your relics are not a tradeable item u can sell. But def is a game changer and if you guys keep believing that putting a month of effort to get a relic is NOT EZ MODE. Keep lying to yourself. Maybe thats one of the reason TS getting shots so often? I really dont know whats legit about getting those relics years back? Legit would be if you get them how things are right now. APplying your logic to this case the way the ppl were killing PW was the "legit" way SINCE IT WAS THE ONLY WAY TO KILL IT. Cus it wasnt coded proplerly. Why then Nasomi didnt deactivated PW in the past from the first place then?

Provide me a reasonable scenario ill be waiting... Just saying we should keep because he hecked up its good enough. I want realistic scenarios were PW becomes Retail accurate and in some way people arent getting screwed.

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SapaJoee / SapDaddy

Best PLD on Nasomi
Best BRD on Nasomi
TopShelf MVP 2017-2020
Voted Nasomi Server Player of the Century Award
Sackholder in TS

So lets say 2 years down the line someone makes a post say "people have hachi body and i cant get it" whats your answer to them? Aint my fault you werent playing then?

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SapaJoee / SapDaddy

Best PLD on Nasomi
Best BRD on Nasomi
TopShelf MVP 2017-2020
Voted Nasomi Server Player of the Century Award
Sackholder in TS

If he takes away the PW gear, there is no debating that it sucks. There is no good way to take away gear. It sucks you're out several million gil. The hard truth is that on a server with working ToAU, there would never be Hachi bodies and Nanas for sale at 3m and 1m, respectively. I know Nasomi is never going to be a carbon copy of retail, and in the world we are given to play in, Hachi bodies were easily obtainable by a competent group of 75's. This made sense, in a vacuum. It wasn't perfect, and I think we all would have rather had a working PW before now, but that's what we were given and that's what people played with. This is the central point in the argument: we play the content we are given, and the server shapes itself around that, in terms of gear meta and economics. The vast majority of the complaints thus far are from the newer generations of players, who feel like the old players had a step up on them. This argument existed 3.5 years ago, when I started. It will always exist. You cannot blame someone for finding and playing on the server before you.

I think that the people complaining about losing their gear don't realize that by keeping incredibly hard to obtain items, like PW drops, in the game, they are going to become the players they are trying to punish now. In a year's time, when we have much more of ToAU and PW bodies are only obtainable by the best linkshells, that generation of players is going to crucify you for your "easymode" PW drops that they can't buy anymore, especially if you aren't in a high-end linkshell. They will look at you and say "he isn't in endgame, he could just buy the drops and didn't have to earn them at all". The same complaints you are throwing at the older players will be thrown back at you, and you'll defend it by saying that it was a different era and it's not your fault for starting earlier than them. For those of you arguing precedent was set when relics were rolled back briefly and Nasomi changed his mind, you're ignoring the outcry when TH was nerfed, when HQ rates were corrected, and when 75% of our gil was taken away, to name a few. He broke precedent once in the entire time I've played here and reverted a change based on player feedback. This didn't set precedent, it broke it.

This is a cycle that never stops and affects everyone. Every new player feels like the older generation had it easier, and every old player feels like the new players don't understand the problems they had to deal with. We went months without sky because the portals didn't work. We went months without Nidhogg because of zone instability. We would have entire dynamis runs crash because of SMN avatar TP moves. We paid 24k/stack for Shihei because there was no fishing and the price floor was set by NPC prices. We paid more for gear because there were so few crafters. Consequently, we got higher TH rates for a while. The old crafting system was more HQ friendly. 75 BLM could do anything with no merits and xp gear. Bind was almost unbreakable. You could sleep-nuke HNMs. Should we have stopped doing content because it was too easy for BLM to complete it? No, because that's what we were given. Just like PW. It was far from perfect, but it was something to do and a way to obtain the items was put into the game, whether you agree with it or not. You can't blame people for experiencing content they are given, as long as they abide by the rules. At the same time, you can't just look at these events in a vacuum. You can't look at PW and then turn around and point at relics, because they don't compare to each other. PW drops take a group of 12 characters an hour. A relic either takes months of farming at 50k/entry and a static group of friends who play at the same time as you and are skilled/geared enough to do the runs, or it takes 45m and STILL requires farm groups to supply you the currency. They aren't equal.

I really do feel badly for people that bought items that they may be losing now. You have a valid argument and I respect that. I remember what it was like to lose a bunch of money. I had reached 4m for the first time the day before the Gilocaust happened and 75% of our gil was taken away, due to a few players exploiting npcs for millions and millions of gil. I thought it was incredibly unfair that my gil was taken away, and the people who exploited it got to keep the relics they bought and the crafts they leveled. The hard truth is that there is no perfect way for Nasomi to deal with problems like this. There is no perfect way for him to make everyone happy. It was essential that he reduce levels of gil at that time, even though it hurt people that didn't deserve it in the short term. It really sucks that people might lose gear they don't want to. In my opinion, it's a worthy trade-off for the massive amount of content we are getting from someone who puts thousands of dollars and countless hours into this server, simply so we can play with our friends in a fantasy world. I get that a lot of you will disagree with me. Just realize that I was once in your shoes, and you'll be in mine a year from now.

-sidenote: Take shots at my linkshell all you like, but the fact remains is that we don't have a single player in Mordion (which the other endgame shells can't say) and we play the game the right way, which is something I'm proud of and is something we made a priority when we built this group. It's easy to hate those that are more successful than you.

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Fid: 75 DRK/RNG/COR/THF/BST/BRD/NIN
Mini: 75 RDM/PLD/BLM/BLU
https://www.topshelf.team/
2017 TS Fantasy Football Champion

Well done

So are we gonna call for kclubs to be bounced since most were not obtained in a retail accurate way? Reset crafting because nas forgot to roll back crafting on that massive update? How far yall think you can take this lol.

yes, that has always been the response on Nasomi. And there’s nothing wrong with that policy.

Spoken like a true man.

This is what I think is more productive. May not be the solution, but the exploring of options is really what should be done. But I agree, there isn't an easy way to go about this.

There's always going to be a risk element when dealing with items / gear from something that is essentially an exploit, because PW not working as intended is exactly that, no matter how long it was left on the table. You inherit that risk when you acquire the item, however you do so. I agree it sucks for those who purchased theirs while the sellers retain the gil, and that people are selling these to players before the wipe who may not check the forum so frequently is a massive dick move, but there's no right way to handle this that doesn't upset some of the population.

But at the same time as Fid has said, you can't fault people for playing the content as it's given to them.

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http://rfklinkshell.com/