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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:59 pm 
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violetnce wrote:
Nekozuko wrote:
Then you need to find a mob with very little level range or have someone higher level to check con of each mob. Then use a parser... err manually write down the results.


Manually alt-tabbing and entering a number into an excel sheet between each cast takes practically no time. 6 seconds tops, which you can easily fit between cooldowns.

Wolffhardt wrote:
Or... like I said for 13 pages, do absolutely nothing because it doesn’t matter and Nas will take another shot at adjusting it when he gets to it, like he said in the Q&A.


Adjusting BLM isn't going to be like a DDR stage. You don't just put in effort and hope you do a good job and a more era-appropriate result falls out. Every bit of verifiable datapoint gathered now is a resource he can draw on.

1) More data gathered in-era can be found by scouring the web
2) Data gathered about how Nasomi's formulae work at this very moment can be gathered (ex: finding the current softcap in Nasomi's formulae or even just 100 casts to estimate a mean unresist rate for an average user)
3) Comparing old and new data to accurately determine where discrepancies may lie. Maybe it's the M.ACC formua. Maybe it's monster M.DEF scaling incorrectly. Maybe it's a rounding error!

This defeatist outlook of yours does nothing but serve as an excuse for your laziness.


I’m not defeatist, I just realize the reality of the server lol. No data gathered will matter. Nas will make another attempt at correcting macc/nuke damage on mobs to more accurately reflect what he considers era accurate.

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Kazen wrote:
...TopShelf told Nas to roll back all your ZNM gear, do the gilpocalypse and nerf Fishing/RNG into the ground.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00 am 
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violetnce wrote:
Here - @Wolffhardt I'll cut you a deal.

You, or one of your buddies, records a stream as BLM fighting whatever mob they like. So long as the spell doesn't change, the mob isn't weak to the spell, the equipment doesn't change, and the mobs are ideally all the same level or only spawn as one of two levels, I'll watch that stream for up to five hours and manually transcribe all legible data myself. How about it? The hard part is being done for you.

Ideally - if you could recreate the conditions as in the example data set, that'd be fantastic.


I’m not sure who convinced you the hard part was typing numbers into a spreadsheet, as opposed to knowingly wasting 5+ hours of time to appease an anonymous forum troll... but they lied to you.

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Kazen wrote:
...TopShelf told Nas to roll back all your ZNM gear, do the gilpocalypse and nerf Fishing/RNG into the ground.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:03 am 
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violetnce wrote:
Nasomi is clearly waiting for hard numbers. In the meantime please cease making "but it FELT different on retail" posts.



Remember your first post? Man. That was wild.

_________________
Kazen wrote:
...TopShelf told Nas to roll back all your ZNM gear, do the gilpocalypse and nerf Fishing/RNG into the ground.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Wolffhardt wrote:
violetnce wrote:
Nasomi is clearly waiting for hard numbers. In the meantime please cease making "but it FELT different on retail" posts.
Remember your first post? Man. That was wild.
Sounds like the alazon passed a stats class and now he thinks he's an ANOVA ninja.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:40 pm 
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Julia wrote:
Sounds like the alazon passed a stats class and now he thinks he's an ANOVA ninja.


I've tolerated a lot of weird insults in this thread, but this clearly takes the cake for being the strangest. The most complex mathematical concept that's been discussed in this thread is percentages. No one is suggesting anyone do anything but organize a table that measures frequency of four discrete categories. Now, I can't speak for you or your life experience, but everyone I know learned how to use fractions in grade school - so excuse me if I treat this suggestion as if it's no big deal. I'll write your name down and make sure I don't confuse you with these kinds of basic concepts in the future.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:12 pm 
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Posts: 133
Julia wrote:
Wolffhardt wrote:
violetnce wrote:
Nasomi is clearly waiting for hard numbers. In the meantime please cease making "but it FELT different on retail" posts.
Remember your first post? Man. That was wild.
Sounds like the alazon passed a stats class and now he thinks he's an ANOVA ninja.

Interesting contrast.... would that make Wolffhardt the eiron in this little drama? Hehehe.

Can't believe this thread is still going after Nasomi's response in the Q&A.

While I am not looking forward to maybe having to push to the 320/120 benchmark again, at least if we knew that was where he is going with the system we could figure out how to deal with it.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:22 pm 
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RAIST5150 wrote:
Can't believe this thread is still going after Nasomi's response in the Q&A.


I take it you mean the "moving target" quote. Here's a hint about that one: people generally refer to things as moving targets when they don't know where the target is (as it has moved from where they thought it was). It heavily implies he's had trouble in the past knowing if buffs or nerfs are needed, or perhaps how much of a buff or nerf is needed. You know what would remedy both of those problems? Gathering data.

I can't believe this needs to be said again. Even if Nasomi buffs BLM, there will still be this exact same thread. There are people for which only extreme buffs will be satisfactory. People will whine and complain that BLM is too weak - and other players who don't enjoy BLM will whine and complain that they're too strong. The best way to shut down all complaints is to prove that the server's formulae are accurate to (or at bare minimum in the ballpark of) era content.

But from this thread I seem to understand that this community's way of dealing with things is community figureheads insisting they're right with zero actual evidence and their sycophants all post agreements for each other and bottom of the barrel tier insults to anyone trying to rock the boat. Truly degenerate.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:31 pm 
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Glad you’ve finally reached the correct understanding.

Can you disappear now?

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Kazen wrote:
...TopShelf told Nas to roll back all your ZNM gear, do the gilpocalypse and nerf Fishing/RNG into the ground.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:33 pm 
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violetnce wrote:
RAIST5150 wrote:
Can't believe this thread is still going after Nasomi's response in the Q&A.


I take it you mean the "moving target" quote.


Oh good grief.... beginning to wonder if you are just skimming things, or it is a comprehension issue....

Nasomi commented specifically about MACC:

"Magic Accuracy is also coming down the line, in the next couple weeks."

That was a quote from the stream. He is aware of the disparity, and is planning changes.

As has been stated by others already within this thread... those who know the jobs impacted by this intuitively know something is off...no data needed to be collected to verify it...they instinctively know it needs tweaking. By your own admission, you don't play those jobs, so don't have the benefit of that perspective. So I get why you keep calling for data, as you have no clue about what is off... but those who understand the jobs, do.

And apparently, Nasomi does as well... as he is already committed to working on the issue. I will say it again... he knows the code in play, so he best knows how to test it as well as how best to tweak it to bring it more towards his intended vision for the system.

At this point, we need to let him do his thing. If he wants assistance with testing it, he will let us know.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:39 am 
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Posts: 556
violetnce wrote:
insisting they're right with zero actual evidence


Pot meet Kettle- You insisted that people that they should spend a few hours collecting data under specific conditions to help/persuade Nas on how to proceed with BLM changes despite the fact that you have no evidence that Nas has any interest in said data collection. It was your assumption. People tried to tell you that it would probably be futile and you responded by calling them lazy. I'm not even picking sides in the debate (because it's stupid given that Nas already has plans to address it) but you are guilty of the very things you are accusing others of so your credibility is basically zero ;)


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