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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:28 am 
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Posts: 61
Question about the fishing thing, since I just started fishing. How much is it changed by? Like do you need to move a few feet to get fishing again, change zones, or is it per zone, or per person per item fished?

Exactly how does this "Dry up" thing happen, and how do you stop it? If you need to completely change zones to another one because one is being/has been over fished, then that just completely fucks up everyone trying to start fishing, or any fishermen.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:30 am 
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Posts: 215
Tex wrote:
Aewyn wrote:
Nabutso wrote:
A bug with weapon delay was discovered that, when fixed, would allow for RNGs to build insane amounts of TP at close range. This is mostly to deter you from meleeing while ranging. But nothing is stopping you from doing so - you still build TP faster while meleeing, and it could still be worth it because of that. People just need to -actually try it out-.

That's the reasoning that I've heard from nas as far as I understand it.


So you've killed some OWNMs, done merit/exp parties, etc, within the past hour since the maint came out?



Is it too late to point out that a half a second delay that wasn't intended being peeled away is in no way shape or form going to drastically effect the time it takes ranger to get 1000 TP relative to other jobs when that same change is applied to every job? The rate at which ranger out TPs everything short of a Samurai would remain the same as it was before. If it wasn't broken before the change, why would it then be broken after the change?

Beastmaster being able to charm mobs and bump their levels to 85 was obviously broken. A change that was necessary. Summoner dropping 3K Predator Claws on mobs that were level 99 was also obviously broken and in need of repair.

Giving ranger an arrow to the knee because of broken delay calculations doesn't make sense - and I don't play the job, nor have any vested interest in keeping it "overpowered." I just remember the great ranger exodus of 06, and really don't want to see the same mistake made here.


I know you're not defending the patch, but what's funny to me is that there were people who thought Rng built TP faster than any melee jobs on this server prior to this update, when it couldn't have been further from the truth. Given a haste or marches, any reasonably geared two-hander melee class should out TP any Rng with the same level of gear at close to two times the rate provided they both have the same hit rate. I've said it before in another thread but any Ranger who relies on melee attack rounds to get TP was hindering their own damage output.


To be fair, most of my time is spent on Red Mage. If the cats I'm herding are alive I'm not concerned what their TP gain rates are. When I'm not on RDM I'm on Paladin. My concerns are Shadows > mob = facing me > everything else > Melee TP gain. So I was sort of operating on assumption that ranger gains TP quicker than most DD (because that psuedo justification almost makes sense - but not really), even though I know realistically they're not auto attacking freely. Ranged attacks take precedence over auto attacks, so from the time the weapon is drawn to the time the shot is fired no attacks are processing which in turn limits tp returns from melee. As does ranger's B- skill in axes and daggers.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:09 pm
Posts: 24
I'll say what I said back when SE implemented this on Retail: No one complained when they were in a party/alliance WITH a Ranger. When you were getting 10k-15k xp hr or annihilating Kirin in 15minutes, no one was asking Rangers to 'ease off'. No one cared about imbalance then. It was only when they were competing with a ranger for an xp slot that some pissed and moaned about 'balance'. But like in life different people are better at different things, certain jobs are (should be) better at different things than others. There's a reason RNG should out damage others: their entire job is based on burning through consumables. That's it. BST (jugs/reward), NIN (tools), RNG (arrows) and COR CONVERT GIL TO XP/HR, so it's patently obvious RNG should out damage, out TP, and out class a job like THF or WAR which can be geared cheaply. RNG always was a job for those individuals who had managed to get their financials straight on this game and Lord it over everyone else while sinking gil out of the economy. And GOOD. Great. The game needs that. It drives a huge portion of the player economy. That's gil for noobs. Rich players need a reason to spend gil, so that new players can earn it. But these types of 'fixes' put too much emphasis on 'balance'. Balance sucks. When everyone is the same, no one needs others for things. This is death for an MMO.

And if balance is a concern. What about my WHM damage? The shittiest DD, out TP's and out damages my whm. Does that need to be balanced? And My curing totally disenfranchises MNK's curing. Does that need to be balanced? I bet WAR's would love to charm mobs, it's unbalanced that BST can have pet damage where others can't. Maybe we should just make every job identical to others. Lets just get rid of the job system. Then everything will be balanced. And when everything's balanced, here's what you have: boredom.

Atleast 4 folks I directly know have logged out, contemplating quitting. That's four consumers, whose competence with game finances helped drive the economy. Nas needs to roll the server back to yesterday's state and we'll all agree to forget this ever happened. because he's seriously screwed the pooch here.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:44 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:21 am
Posts: 29
Just want to add my two cents.

I'm not an endgame rng and now may not ever be. I'm only 62.

But this is probably a job-killing nerf at this point.

Honestly I wouldn't mind just hanging back at the perfect range (in xp parties) and twanging away on my bow. That's the appeal of a ranged class for me. But realistically, I'll just be hanging back and waiting. And waiting. Because the second I throw a rapid shot after a normal one, that mob is leaving the party and coming after me. Everybody's xp/hr tanks.

I heard somebody say that if the sweet spot also had some enmity- that this implementation would be fine. I totally agree. It's just not possible to play ranger the way this nerf wants you to. You can't sit at 14 yalms or whatever and fire off shot after shot to make up for your lack of melee damage. There is no tank who can keep that mob off you, especially on birds or flies. That's why it's already not an option for any melee to sub anything but /nin.

It was also said to "find a good tank"--as if there are 5 tanks to choose from within 10 levels online at any given time. Oh, and at least one of them is in the 95th-percentile of great tanks. That's a disrespectful and unrealistic suggestion.

At least I can sell my ebow for 3M... ... ...


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:45 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:17 am
Posts: 10
Takelli wrote:
Question about the fishing thing, since I just started fishing. How much is it changed by? Like do you need to move a few feet to get fishing again, change zones, or is it per zone, or per person per item fished?

Exactly how does this "Dry up" thing happen, and how do you stop it? If you need to completely change zones to another one because one is being/has been over fished, then that just completely fucks up everyone trying to start fishing, or any fishermen.

You don't need to change zones, simply moving a bit fixes it.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9209

I posted my results in that thread as well, to give people an idea of what's happening.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:54 am 
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 9:53 pm
Posts: 383
Aewyn wrote:
Tex wrote:
Aewyn wrote:


Is it too late to point out that a half a second delay that wasn't intended being peeled away is in no way shape or form going to drastically effect the time it takes ranger to get 1000 TP relative to other jobs when that same change is applied to every job? The rate at which ranger out TPs everything short of a Samurai would remain the same as it was before. If it wasn't broken before the change, why would it then be broken after the change?

Beastmaster being able to charm mobs and bump their levels to 85 was obviously broken. A change that was necessary. Summoner dropping 3K Predator Claws on mobs that were level 99 was also obviously broken and in need of repair.

Giving ranger an arrow to the knee because of broken delay calculations doesn't make sense - and I don't play the job, nor have any vested interest in keeping it "overpowered." I just remember the great ranger exodus of 06, and really don't want to see the same mistake made here.


I know you're not defending the patch, but what's funny to me is that there were people who thought Rng built TP faster than any melee jobs on this server prior to this update, when it couldn't have been further from the truth. Given a haste or marches, any reasonably geared two-hander melee class should out TP any Rng with the same level of gear at close to two times the rate provided they both have the same hit rate. I've said it before in another thread but any Ranger who relies on melee attack rounds to get TP was hindering their own damage output.


To be fair, most of my time is spent on Red Mage. If the cats I'm herding are alive I'm not concerned what their TP gain rates are. When I'm not on RDM I'm on Paladin. My concerns are Shadows > mob = facing me > everything else > Melee TP gain. So I was sort of operating on assumption that ranger gains TP quicker than most DD (because that psuedo justification almost makes sense - but not really), even though I know realistically they're not auto attacking freely. Ranged attacks take precedence over auto attacks, so from the time the weapon is drawn to the time the shot is fired no attacks are processing which in turn limits tp returns from melee. As does ranger's B- skill in axes and daggers.


It's okay I wasn't really directing it at you, more just the people who believed that because I know they do exist. But yes, you're correct and especially when melee also have access to spells and abilities that shorten the delay between their swings, where Ranger has nothing but 10% delay reduction from 5/5 Snapshot merits and whenever rapid shot procs. So when a ranger is spamming their ranged attack macro as they should be depending on the situation then their TP gain is gated by their weapon's long delay. Compound this with ammo delay not adding the extra TP to ranged attacks as it should on this server, and now you have a TP phase that is slow as fuck in comparison to other DD classes.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:07 am
Posts: 102
This is really good, I think. The game is finally starting to be more balanced.
There are just a few more adjustments to other jobs to be made to make it perfect.
Soon...

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:02 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:56 am
Posts: 10
Piellar wrote:
musufasa wrote:
Piellar wrote:

It sometimes happens (see that amazing thread about the guy pretending to be jailed wrongfully), but more often than not Nasomi is not going to answer player questions here and does not participate on the forums outside of posting events and updates.

Nabutso can share what he knows about a situation, but he is not an admin nor a speaker for Nasomi and the information is provided to the best of his knowledge only.

You should probably make fun plans for the week-end and pass by occasionally to see if the server's condition has improved. =S


Ohhh, where is that thread?


This is it : viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8412

A fun read.


Solid read, thank you!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:07 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:20 am
Posts: 49
How about no penalty while NOT engaged?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:10 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:24 pm
Posts: 767
Lyle wrote:
This is really good, I think. The game is finally starting to be more balanced.
There are just a few more adjustments to other jobs to be made to make it perfect.
Soon...

Trollolololol

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