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 Post subject: Re: Algol Sword
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:35 pm
Posts: 2629
Therin wrote:
Kazen wrote:
Nah, I leveled the job way before I had a Kraken Club and honestly, my GS is ~level 110 from trying to deal damage on PLD not DRK. You bring up all of these points in a vacuum where this person is only 75 DRK.


So.. you're arguing that Scythe is better in 100% of situations but you don't even have Great Sword skilled up yet? I assume you probably have a relic in which case this argument may not even be valid but you should level up your Great Sword and try it. You'll be pleasantly surprised. Trust me, as a career DRK on retail, until I got my Apocalypse there were many situations where I preferred to use my Great Sword.

Whether or not the player has other 75 jobs is completely irrelevant for the discussion. We're talking about Great Swords for DRK. We're not talking about SAM, DRG, BLM or any other job.



I think that's just a weird hypothetical. Yes, GS might be better for a DRK in some situations (I actually have no idea) but I believe the argument is: If it's one of those situations, that person should probably not come DRK.

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...TopShelf told Nas to roll back all your ZNM gear, do the gilpocalypse and nerf Fishing/RNG into the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: Algol Sword
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:53 pm 
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Posts: 1143
Wolffhardt wrote:
Therin wrote:
Kazen wrote:
Nah, I leveled the job way before I had a Kraken Club and honestly, my GS is ~level 110 from trying to deal damage on PLD not DRK. You bring up all of these points in a vacuum where this person is only 75 DRK.


So.. you're arguing that Scythe is better in 100% of situations but you don't even have Great Sword skilled up yet? I assume you probably have a relic in which case this argument may not even be valid but you should level up your Great Sword and try it. You'll be pleasantly surprised. Trust me, as a career DRK on retail, until I got my Apocalypse there were many situations where I preferred to use my Great Sword.

Whether or not the player has other 75 jobs is completely irrelevant for the discussion. We're talking about Great Swords for DRK. We're not talking about SAM, DRG, BLM or any other job.



I think that's just a weird hypothetical. Yes, GS might be better for a DRK in some situations (I actually have no idea) but I believe the argument is: If it's one of those situations, that person should probably not come DRK.


This pretty much. Outside of maybe a planned DL attempt for drks who really just use the job to zerg and don't really care about playing it, if you are coming to an endgame event as a drk with a great sword, it is simply because you can't provide a more useful role.

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 Post subject: Re: Algol Sword
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:51 am
Posts: 215
Aeroo wrote:
Wolffhardt wrote:
Therin wrote:

So.. you're arguing that Scythe is better in 100% of situations but you don't even have Great Sword skilled up yet? I assume you probably have a relic in which case this argument may not even be valid but you should level up your Great Sword and try it. You'll be pleasantly surprised. Trust me, as a career DRK on retail, until I got my Apocalypse there were many situations where I preferred to use my Great Sword.

Whether or not the player has other 75 jobs is completely irrelevant for the discussion. We're talking about Great Swords for DRK. We're not talking about SAM, DRG, BLM or any other job.



I think that's just a weird hypothetical. Yes, GS might be better for a DRK in some situations (I actually have no idea) but I believe the argument is: If it's one of those situations, that person should probably not come DRK.


This pretty much. Outside of maybe a planned DL attempt for drks who really just use the job to zerg and don't really care about playing it, if you are coming to an endgame event as a drk with a great sword, it is simply because you can't provide a more useful role.


There's also the possibility that your LS hasn't forgotten that it's a game, and they're willing to loosen up and let you have a little fun playing DRK outside the meta for once instead of insisting you come on RDM/BLM/SMN/KclubDRK etc. I mean all you really need for most of Sky, Limbus, and Dynamis is 12-18 warm bodies that are 75 & have acquired mediocre gear for the job they want to bring. 1-2 of some kind of tank, 2-3 of some kind of healer, hopefully someone's feeling up to playing a support role because 2-3 are always nice but we've forged ahead with none when no one's feeling like a spoony Bard. Might get a little messy sometimes, but who doesn't have a screenshot in their LS Discord somewhere from a summon coming unslept and wiping the alliance?

With respect to an earlier post that caught my eye, Algol Vs Subduer I'd say it depends. Subduer has a 444 delay, you'll never see enough Store TP to make a 6 hit build, you'd need +26 to make a 7 hit build (44.4 seconds to get 1000 TP after each WS before haste is applied). With an Algol at 489 delay and that same 26 store TP you'd reach 100 TP in 40.75 seconds because you'd have a 6 hit build. Once ZNMs are back in place that becomes an obtainable figure w/ sam subbed. ~%10 more WS per hour is tough to argue with. I don't know if %6 crit rate and faster swing time would be able to overcome both %3 triple attack and faster TP gain even if the fire ability isn't working. I'd say at the very least with the right build it can hold it's own against a Subduer.

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 Post subject: Re: Algol Sword
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:23 pm 
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Posts: 148
Algol is better than Subduer due to the low delay on Subduer, Spinning slash is better than Guillotine in low buff situations and is more consistent.

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 Post subject: Re: Algol Sword
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:39 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:51 pm
Posts: 208
sukasaroth wrote:
Algol is better than Subduer due to the low delay on Subduer, Spinning slash is better than Guillotine in low buff situations and is more consistent.


Thank you. Nice to have some support from another career, in-era retail DRK.

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Fairy (ThoseGuys/LostParadise)
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 Post subject: Re: Algol Sword
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:09 am
Posts: 333
So...back to the topic.... any realistic chance I can get my hand on one of these?

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 Post subject: Re: Algol Sword
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:37 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:12 am
Posts: 1465
mello wrote:
So...back to the topic.... any realistic chance I can get my hand on one of these?


As realistic as your LS' chances at killing Cerb, or another LS selling you the Algol. TopShelf doesn't sell HNM items.

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 Post subject: Re: Algol Sword
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:35 pm
Posts: 2629
Aewyn wrote:
Aeroo wrote:
Wolffhardt wrote:


I think that's just a weird hypothetical. Yes, GS might be better for a DRK in some situations (I actually have no idea) but I believe the argument is: If it's one of those situations, that person should probably not come DRK.


This pretty much. Outside of maybe a planned DL attempt for drks who really just use the job to zerg and don't really care about playing it, if you are coming to an endgame event as a drk with a great sword, it is simply because you can't provide a more useful role.


There's also the possibility that your LS hasn't forgotten that it's a game, and they're willing to loosen up and let you have a little fun playing DRK outside the meta for once instead of insisting you come on RDM/BLM/SMN/KclubDRK etc. I mean all you really need for most of Sky, Limbus, and Dynamis is 12-18 warm bodies that are 75 & have acquired mediocre gear for the job they want to bring. 1-2 of some kind of tank, 2-3 of some kind of healer, hopefully someone's feeling up to playing a support role because 2-3 are always nice but we've forged ahead with none when no one's feeling like a spoony Bard. Might get a little messy sometimes, but who doesn't have a screenshot in their LS Discord somewhere from a summon coming unslept and wiping the alliance?

With respect to an earlier post that caught my eye, Algol Vs Subduer I'd say it depends. Subduer has a 444 delay, you'll never see enough Store TP to make a 6 hit build, you'd need +26 to make a 7 hit build (44.4 seconds to get 1000 TP after each WS before haste is applied). With an Algol at 489 delay and that same 26 store TP you'd reach 100 TP in 40.75 seconds because you'd have a 6 hit build. Once ZNMs are back in place that becomes an obtainable figure w/ sam subbed. ~%10 more WS per hour is tough to argue with. I don't know if %6 crit rate and faster swing time would be able to overcome both %3 triple attack and faster TP gain even if the fire ability isn't working. I'd say at the very least with the right build it can hold it's own against a Subduer.


Someone’s LS not caring about having efficient or optimal job and gear for content isn’t the same as that not being the efficient and optimal setup.

Your LS can have 18 WHM melee Kirin to death for all I care. That doesn’t change an answer about it.

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Kazen wrote:
...TopShelf told Nas to roll back all your ZNM gear, do the gilpocalypse and nerf Fishing/RNG into the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: Algol Sword
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:51 am
Posts: 215
Wolffhardt wrote:
Someone’s LS not caring about having efficient or optimal job and gear for content isn’t the same as that not being the efficient and optimal setup.

Your LS can have 18 WHM melee Kirin to death for all I care. That doesn’t change an answer about it.


I don't recall anyone asking about efficient or optimal. I recall a snide remark to the effect of, 'If someone brings this setup it's only because they've nothing better to offer.' Which is demonstrably false. If I bring DRK with a great sword, it's because I enjoy it and want to knock the dust off the DRK and actually bring it to an event. I have other things leveled, but every once in a while it's nice to break from the meta and use something different.

I understand some people are slaves to the efficiency meta. That's fine. It doesn't mean metaslaves have to interject and try to bat people down when they ask about something like Great Swords. We all know nothing that is Dark Knight fits the meta unless it has a Ridill, Kraken club, or Apocalypse. Most Dark Knights will be relegating their DRK mains to merit parties and leveling BLM or summoner soon enough. Let them have their fun while they can.

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 Post subject: Re: Algol Sword
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:57 pm
Posts: 148
Aewyn wrote:
Wolffhardt wrote:
Someone’s LS not caring about having efficient or optimal job and gear for content isn’t the same as that not being the efficient and optimal setup.

Your LS can have 18 WHM melee Kirin to death for all I care. That doesn’t change an answer about it.


I don't recall anyone asking about efficient or optimal. I recall a snide remark to the effect of, 'If someone brings this setup it's only because they've nothing better to offer.' Which is demonstrably false. If I bring DRK with a great sword, it's because I enjoy it and want to knock the dust off the DRK and actually bring it to an event. I have other things leveled, but every once in a while it's nice to break from the meta and use something different.

I understand some people are slaves to the efficiency meta. That's fine. It doesn't mean metaslaves have to interject and try to bat people down when they ask about something like Great Swords. We all know nothing that is Dark Knight fits the meta unless it has a Ridill, Kraken club, or Apocalypse. Most Dark Knights will be relegating their DRK mains to merit parties and leveling BLM or summoner soon enough. Let them have their fun while they can.



NO META ONLY YOU PLEB. KCLUB EVERYTHING.


Something to that effect.

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