This thread is something else.

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This society is really tryin me, ain't no hide and seek
I hide to be far from anxiety, I need my space,
I need my privacy, I need some signs please,
You're all too loud you don't speak quietly, opinions violently.
Deft/Drop

apparently so are gay people




okay im done

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I couldnt really read much of this thread; but if you have a specific characteristic irl(skin color, religion, sexual orientation, like sports, play MTG), and you find yourself in a linkshell with people that would hate you if they knew; and their hatred for certain characteristics was part of their core identity as a person to the point that they couldnt help but talk about it, it's not the least reasonable thing to let other people know to avoid them. Not sure you needed all the extra language.

To give an example:
If you hate white people so much that you cant help but talk about it, then it's probably just better if all the white people know not to join your shell, right?

Bigot = Banhammer

Just to play devil's advocate, if A is plausible, why is B asinine? If anything, B is likely more plausible because we've all had someone either rip something we've said out of context, been too daft to get the context, or just pop in at the wrong section of the conversation and miss a thing that is pivotal in providing context. And context always matters. With respect to C, I've seen a few fringe people assert exactly that, specifically that straight people are bigoted if they're not attracted to a trans person.

As for the rest, I prefer to hold myself to a higher standard than courts rather than a lower one. Considering how often a professional judge, jury of 12 peers, professional defense attorney tasked with proving innocence and refuting allegations against the defendant, and prosecution that is tasked with meeting the burden of proof beyond reasonable doubt come to a conclusion that is dead wrong, to me there's no value in lowering the standard just because I exist outside of that setting.

Honestly it doesn't look like there would be any further conversation from any adults if there were going to be a telling of the other side. I see one person making a claim, I see other people breaking their neck to fall on the 'believe the accuser, damn the accused!' sword, and only one person that's even willing to entertain the notion that there could be more to the matter than what's been presented. There would be name calling, posturing/grandstanding, morality policing, and attempts to shame dissenters into submission. But there wouldn't be adult conversation.

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I think if we saw screenshots of the exchange we'd be more willing to doubt the accuser. With Killerkyo's well known world views, this doesn't come as a surprise to anyone in the end game scene over the past year.

As for the part that's in bold, there should be adult conversation. But there is no logical explanation why someone feels so strongly about another's sex life. We've had this conversation for a very long time now in the real world, those on the wrong side(F THE GAYS types) of history deserve to be shamed. If people aren't shown consequences for their actions they will just keep repeating the same mistakes. Freedom of Speech only protects you from prosecution from the State/Government, not from your fellow citizens.

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This society is really tryin me, ain't no hide and seek
I hide to be far from anxiety, I need my space,
I need my privacy, I need some signs please,
You're all too loud you don't speak quietly, opinions violently.
Deft/Drop

* sigh *
was notified about this through ls mates

i feel like i should give some outside perspective for the people on this "court of law/innocent until proven guilty" shit...


As the person responsible for birthing Troll in his wake, I can vouch for what OP is saying.

i had to remove Chocoboy from my linkshell, FriendsWithBenefits, after a number of my officers and members were sending me messages in regards to Choco spamming the chat with lewd, weird and sometimes racist and/or homophobic remarks. i let it slide silently a few times, but when one of my main officers mentioned it to me without me saying anything, it was kind of the final straw. i had members, including officers, threatening to leave my shell as a result of the things he was saying, for sure. not that it would matter, but I could bring a whole roster of ppl through here who could vouch/probably do have SS for you lol. i never screen shotted any of it because i don't deal with that shit and kicked him (was why he got so butthurt and created an "anti shell" immediately following his booting with his Waluigi self). the shell is even pink to mimic mine

Choco didn't take getting kicked lightly and created his own linkshell, Troll, to do obnoxious things like wait for us to shout for membership and warn new recruits they'll "just get kicked for no reason" or whatever. petty shit.

i've ignored it this whole time until i saw this. i knew people would eventually see why i kicked him out of my linkshell for themselves lol.

looks like not much has changed.

whatever though, they have their little sewer grate to climb into and I'm sure some people will appreciate your heads up, so everyone wins.


*edited for repetition/tired*

The beauty of small community games like FFXI is that reputation matters and the truth always has a way of making itself known over time. The OP made a rather benign post warning a subset of the population to avoid a particular ls, where, at best, they would be unwelcome. That's it- it didn't seem all that dramatic to me. He named a few names and that was probably unnecessary, but other than that it didn't seem inflammatory.

Somehow we end up with a 5-page thread and some personal injury lawyers who are up-in-arms about the rights of the accused. I'm curious to know if those personal injury lawyers had taken a moment to consider sending a tell to the accused regarding the thread or to ask around quietly in their linkshell about the reputations of the accused? I wonder if these personal injury lawyers would be so quick to jump to the defense of the "aggrieved" if the shoe was on the other foot? Would you be in here defending an unknown person if they were accused of making aggressively homosexual/trans friendly etc remarks that were over the line of community norms? I wonder if you'd be imploring us to wait to see both sides or that this was all "he said-she said".

Sadly, as much as I love playing on this server I've definitely been witness to plenty of racist, homophobic, Islamophobic etc. etc opinions and discussions. When called on it, the people who seem the most outraged are the bigots and their apologists. They don't want to be called racists or homophobic because the label is ugly, yet they are unable to make the leap that the things they are saying or the ideologies they espouse are the actual ugliness.

I'd be willing to bet that 95% of the server population plays this game to inhabit a world where they can focus on slaying digital lizards for pixelated shinies that have more stats than their current pixelated shinies. We come to this world for a break from THAT world which this stuff inhabits. Don't let that stuff seep into here. Most of us are happy to let the bigots feel however they want to feel about whatever group they hate (hate is a constitutional right as long as you don't inflict it on others) as long as they keep it the fuck to themselves. One group warning another group how to avoid the former isn't a violation of- it's a favor to both sides!

Seriously- just let us kill digital lizards in peace.

I feel like this is a sandoria thing. I've never even heard of half these people or these linkshells, and I feel like I would of since my favorite color is pink.

On that note, screw sandorians! Come to bastok. We appreciate gays, and have less drama

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Our recent accomplishments

This is mostly what I meant. If you want to be a racist, homophobe, etc; do so in your own private space with your friends that accept it or are also that way. If you let it out of your personal space for others to see, and they warn more to stay away from you, then you can accept that as the free market of people and relations picking and choosing winners and losers. If what youre saying outside of personal spaces sucks, especially in social linkshells where you dont vet the recruits, then you will get sanctioned by people who dont like it, and welcomed by those that do. Keep it in your private circle, or accept the freedom of speech of others and the free market of your worth as a person in return. If you want to be ideologically extreme, you will attract others that agree and repel those that dont, and you can reap the benefits and suffer the consequences of that. If you want to be ideologically moderate, then you can reap those benefits and suffer those consequences. Stop avoiding personal responsibility for your choices.



Galkas are stupid, Tarus are gross, Mithra master race, fuck bastok and windurst, come at me.