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 Post subject: Re: CONTENT?!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:04 pm
Posts: 301
Central wrote:
I think you missed my point, which was to NOT lock it behind something requiring an Endgame Linkshell and having to compete over it. It screws over the players who don't want to be involved in any of that, especially since ZNMs are not and were never something to compete over on retail. It was accessible to all players, provided you do all the pre-requisites.

Because these pre-requisites (the picture taking for zeni) to acquire these pops aren't here, obviously a different method will be introduced, however he's going in the wrong direction by making it inaccessible to all but established Endgame Linkshells with this current method of locking it behind Endgame content.

I'm trying to look at this from all sides (all types of players) and not just one (Endgame). That's why, I'm hoping that all of this better JUST be tentative.

This is the perfect opportunity for him to introduce a legit (and hopefully reasonably priced) gilsink, I hope he doesn't screw it up.

Edit: He can make T1 pops 10K, T2 30K, T3 50K, and T4 100K. This is about 1.1M gil removed to complete a PW popset. He can even adjust the drop rates (again, hopefully to reasonable rates) so that players are needed to do ZNMs multiple times if they want a certain drop = more gil removed from the server = never a bad thing.

PW will also (or at least should be) incredible and extremely difficult to kill, so that's 1.1M gil to keep trial and erroring it until it gets killed consistently. Very similar to farming popsets for Kirin and AV, except you're dumping gil.


Point understood and believe me I'd rather there not be 100 people at Khimaira when people want the sword yet not necessarily the ZNM pop but here we are and we need to accept it.

I'm sure he will introduce something the server will enjoy overall but that's not the present situation. This is endgame gear though, not exactly AF stuff.

Edit: please understand this isn't and won't ever be retail. Things are custom here and it's not for everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: CONTENT?!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:24 pm
Posts: 767
Central wrote:
I think you missed my point, which was to NOT lock it behind something requiring an Endgame Linkshell and having to compete over it. It screws over the players who don't want to be involved in any of that, especially since ZNMs are not and were never something to compete over on retail. It was accessible to all players, provided you do all the pre-requisites.

Because these pre-requisites (the picture taking for zeni) to acquire these pops aren't here, obviously a different method will be introduced, however he's going in the wrong direction by making it inaccessible to all but established Endgame Linkshells with this current method of locking it behind Endgame content.

I'm trying to look at this from all sides (all types of players) and not just one (Endgame). That's why, I'm hoping that all of this better JUST be tentative.

This is the perfect opportunity for him to introduce a legit (and hopefully reasonably priced) gilsink, I hope he doesn't screw it up.

Edit: He can make T1 pops 10K, T2 30K, T3 50K, and T4 100K. This is about 1.1M gil removed to complete a PW popset. He can even adjust the drop rates (again, hopefully to reasonable rates) so that players are needed to do ZNMs multiple times if they want a certain drop = more gil removed from the server = never a bad thing.

PW will also (or at least should be) incredible and extremely difficult to kill, so that's 1.1M gil to keep trial and erroring it until it gets killed consistently. Very similar to farming popsets for Kirin and AV, except you're dumping gil.

On stream he said once the system is implemented T1 pops will be a gil sink. Higher pops will not be purchasable, but each ZNM will have a chance (not 100%) to drop the pop for the next tier.

I expect t1 pops to be significantly more expensive.

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 Post subject: Re: CONTENT?!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:35 am
Posts: 96
Maseki wrote:
Point understood and believe me I'd rather there not be 100 people at Khimaira when people want the sword yet not necessarily the ZNM pop but here we are and we need to accept it.

I'm sure he will introduce something the server will enjoy overall but that's not the present situation. This is endgame gear though, not exactly AF stuff.

Edit: please understand this isn't and won't ever be retail. Things are custom here and it's not for everyone.


Um, no, we don't have to accept it unless he's absolutely sure it's the BEST option for ALL players to benefit from, players can still show him why it isn't, and that's exactly what I'm doing.

Just because it's not retail doesn't mean players cant show him why his ideas are flawed, I know this is Nasomi we're talking about, but at least I'm trying.

Just because this won't ever be retail doesn't mean he should only look at things from one perspective.


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 Post subject: Re: CONTENT?!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:08 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:04 pm
Posts: 301
Central wrote:
Maseki wrote:
Point understood and believe me I'd rather there not be 100 people at Khimaira when people want the sword yet not necessarily the ZNM pop but here we are and we need to accept it.

I'm sure he will introduce something the server will enjoy overall but that's not the present situation. This is endgame gear though, not exactly AF stuff.

Edit: please understand this isn't and won't ever be retail. Things are custom here and it's not for everyone.


Um, no, we don't have to accept it unless he's absolutely sure it's the BEST option for ALL players to benefit from, players can still show him why it isn't, and that's exactly what I'm doing.

Just because it's not retail doesn't mean players cant show him why his ideas are flawed, I know this is Nasomi we're talking about, but at least I'm trying.

Just because this won't ever be retail doesn't mean he should only look at things from one perspective.


Overall the majority of the server is in endgame as of right now. I'd say you're in the minority and going back to "fix" something is delaying progress. Progress we ALL desperately need at this time. So let's accept this in the interim and not throw a tantrum.

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 Post subject: Re: CONTENT?!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:57 pm
Posts: 775
Central wrote:
I think you missed my point, which was to NOT lock it behind something requiring an Endgame Linkshell and having to compete over it. It screws over the players who don't want to be involved in any of that, especially since ZNMs are not and were never something to compete over on retail. It was accessible to all players, provided you do all the pre-requisites.

Because these pre-requisites (the picture taking for zeni) to acquire these pops aren't here, obviously a different method will be introduced, however he's going in the wrong direction by making it inaccessible to all but established Endgame Linkshells with this current method of locking it behind Endgame content.

I'm trying to look at this from all sides (all types of players) and not just one (Endgame). That's why, I'm hoping that all of this better JUST be tentative.

This is the perfect opportunity for him to introduce a legit (and hopefully reasonably priced) gilsink, I hope he doesn't screw it up.

Edit: He can make T1 pops 10K, T2 30K, T3 50K, and T4 100K. This is about 1.1M gil removed to complete a PW popset. He can even adjust the drop rates (again, hopefully to reasonable rates) so that players are needed to do ZNMs multiple times if they want a certain drop = more gil removed from the server = never a bad thing.

PW will also (or at least should be) incredible and extremely difficult to kill, so that's 1.1M gil to keep trial and erroring it until it gets killed consistently. Very similar to farming popsets for Kirin and AV, except you're dumping gil.


add multiple zero's to those prices, holy crap.

my solution: make t1 pops cost a moderate amount of gil. give each level a chance to drop the next pop you need. Fairly simple. Makes it grindy, which is what everyone wants. Removes some gil from the server. Makes it so you don't have to camp the HNMs to get pops. (leave them a chance of dropping a T3 or T4 pop, so killing them still has a reward.. chance of skipping a few grind levels of the T1 pop purchases).

Make the pop drop rates fairly low so that you have to grind the pyramid to really get many higher sets. There's not more content coming soon, make this one punishing.

You're welcome Nas.

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 Post subject: Re: CONTENT?!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:37 pm
Posts: 565
The overwhelming amount of content in this game can be done with 6-8 characters. The only hard part is getting the claim, rage nidhogg, or fighting for an extended period of time on higher HP stuff. The bulk of the gear is from Dynamis, Limbus, KSNMs(which youll get more of someday) and Sky; where the only fight that might require an end game shell is kirin, but that's really debatable. There's a literal abundance of small group stuff, so hopefully nasomi makes at least T3 and T4 of very high difficulty level, not just PW with that LOL loot pool. And if his goal is to make a gil sink, then T1 pops should cost a million or so to open up the pyramid.


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 Post subject: Re: CONTENT?!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:57 pm
Posts: 775
exelyon wrote:
The overwhelming amount of content in this game can be done with 6-8 characters. The only hard part is getting the claim, rage nidhogg, or fighting for an extended period of time on higher HP stuff. The bulk of the gear is from Dynamis, Limbus, KSNMs(which youll get more of someday) and Sky; where the only fight that might require an end game shell is kirin, but that's really debatable. There's a literal abundance of small group stuff, so hopefully nasomi makes at least T3 and T4 of very high difficulty level, not just PW with that LOL loot pool. And if his goal is to make a gil sink, then T1 pops should cost a million or so to open up the pyramid.



my boy

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yikes


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 Post subject: Re: CONTENT?!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:35 am
Posts: 96
As long as players can obtain ALL the pop items/necessary items to advance a tier without needing to step into the Endgame Scene, I don't care what he does. Give the Kings a chance to allow players to skip a tier as a reward for camping and killing them? Sure. Just make sure it's not the ONLY source. It's all about accessibility for EVERYONE.

And 1M is too much. No one is going to want to do them past the first few tries if it's that expensive, that's old Dynamis price, except ideally you'd divide that by the people attending. Some T1 ZNMs can be solo'd, no one is going to pay 1M just to have a shot at progressing to the next tier. My prices for T2, 3, and 4 were just made up, but I at least tried to make T1 prices close to what it would have cost on retail if you bought the Imperial Currency with gil. I personally think 20K, 30K, or 50K is reasonable, especially if the drop rate for the next pop set isn't going to be 100% anymore.

You're overestimating how well a 1M (lol) gilsink would do. Don't underestimate how quickly 50K can add up with many players needing items. People already sink 50K for Dynamis and end up being rewarded more than they spent.


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 Post subject: Re: CONTENT?!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:57 pm
Posts: 775
I think you're underestimating the inflation of gil on the server. There's scrubs trying to pay 80m gil for KC's because they don't know what to do with their gil anymore. If you don't have gil, you're not trying.

Making a PW popset cost 1.1m gil (as your example did) would make the content that Nas spent a year (as of now, who knows how long it'll be when it's actually implemented and working) last the majority of the server about a month.

1m for a t1 is maybe pushing it. I'd go with like 400k-500k, and make the drop rates for the next tier around 30%.

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 Post subject: Re: CONTENT?!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:35 am
Posts: 96
No one likes to spend or throw away gil, no matter how much you have. That's just fact. (Actually, that's true IRL too, so...)

100K would be the absolute most I would pay for T1 ZNMs. Any more than that is crazy. I still think 50K is reasonable, since that's highest gil sink we have right now for "official unofficial" content (city dyna and dreamlands).


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