You mean to tell me that from an offensive perspective the subjob that only offers a (better) defensive capability gets shit on by the sub that actually has offensive capabilities designed for 2 handed weapon users? Well, no shit Cheyenne...but has anyone told you that becoming a drain on the healer's MP pool makes you a liability rather than an asset regardless of how much damage per second you bring to the table?

Having to pull along a pocket healer does not a viable sub job make. And before you shit talk healers - level one. I stopped meriting on RDM primarily because I was tired of the logistical nightmare that is keeping the one SAM/WAR or DD/SAM alive while trying to keep the rest adequately hasted/alive. When I have a bard + Corsair, 11+ MP/tick refresh, 45+ MP/tick resting, and a 7.5 minute recast on convert and still go OOM cure bombing 1 (one, single) DD because of their shitty subjob selection, the problem is their shitty subjob selection. Healing merits is already a big enough drag in a good party with well behaved DD and the right sub without having to contend with the bonehead that thinks his personal DPS is more important than the party's overall efficiency and thus refuses to play defensively.

And no, it wasn't like this on retail. I can almost promise you mobs did not hit as hard, and I know for a fact they did not spam TP abilities as frequently. Sam sub was fine in retail. It's situational at best here.

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I need to see your merit allocation.

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This society is really tryin me, ain't no hide and seek
I hide to be far from anxiety, I need my space,
I need my privacy, I need some signs please,
You're all too loud you don't speak quietly, opinions violently.
Deft/Drop

How about you just not merit with the idiot?

I main healed a Mount Z party WHILE dualboxing (I was WAR/SAM + WHM/BLM), where the only source of mana regen was the BRD and an occasional Evokers when things got hairy. The other two DDs were MNK/NIN and SAM/WAR. No outside PLs, no outside healing, haste kept up, but no Dia on mobs. Got chain 300+ 45k+ an hour.

If I can do that dualbox on WHM, either you're terrible or that was the worst /SAM player on in the world. Based off the convert merits Im leaning towards one of those.

I just wanna know how they got 8 into Convert...

_________________

This society is really tryin me, ain't no hide and seek
I hide to be far from anxiety, I need my space,
I need my privacy, I need some signs please,
You're all too loud you don't speak quietly, opinions violently.
Deft/Drop

Sorry, I worded my post poorly. I think we're actually in agreement on subs outside of Nin being underutilized on this server. My point of this being the case on retail wasn't really directed towards requiring a pocket healer, more so that Sam sub was more viable than Ninja sub in a variety of situations on retail and it can be here too unless Nas decides to completely gut the job. Because like I said Sam sub on retail was most definitely the most beneficial in ToAU era in any meripo type scenario where your DDs weren't complete garbage and the mobs died fast. I can agree with mobs not hitting as hard on retail as they currently do being a large factor for why /nin is so popular here. Then again we never really used weird camps like Misa birds/Zhayolm Crawlers/Caedaerva Flies, not much else outside of Greater Colibri or Mamool really . One of which is a decent camp with Corsair roll but mediocre without and the other is just bad on this server so they don't often get used.

Let's agree to disagree on the pocket healer point though. Firstly I have leveled a healer to 75 and it's been relegated to being a pocket healer because I've played this game enough across multiple servers now to know what jobs I do and do not enjoy playing. A second character is free of charge here and I wanted to solo/duo some content though. Another expected benefit of having one is shutting up any potential whiners when they're confronted with the possibility of having to do slightly more work than they would like due to a job combo they don't agree with. Personally, I don't even expect my healers to cast cure on me in meripo because I tend to keep track of my own buffs and heal myself more quickly anyway. I don't enjoy subbing Ninja because it's incredibly boring, but I do it when the content calls for it just like I would on retail. Exp parties are not that type of content for me, they weren't on retail and they rarely are for me on Nasomi either. If it takes bringing a pocket healer along to make it more feasible (on a server where two characters are free and dual boxing is as easy as pie no less) then I fail to see how it isn't viable. No one complains, I still get 45k/hr exp parties, everyone is happy with the result. In the case of Nasomi I can assure you the extra dps from a more offensive sub like /Sam does help out quite a bit with this. You do you boo.

Really, I'd just love if Nas fixed his server's damage formulas so /nin wasn't the norm for most DDs in exp because let's be honest it's boring af.

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People tend to fight higher level monsters on nas compared to retail, and in exp camps usually start earlier than they did on retail. You never did Misa birds on retail because they didn't exist until the first Aby patch, they also have like 2~3 levels over Greater Colibri here. They are all IT, when most merit parties back in the day chained VTs. Zhayolm Crawlers were absolutely a thing in the 60s on retail though, and people did flies in between imps, but usually imp/fly parties weren't merit. You can still do Greater Lolibri, but you won't get 45k/hour (pretty outside the norm for retail, let's be honest). They aren't as popular because their more accessible, non-food eating, non-multi hitting, non-tp reducing, more exp yielding cousins die fast enough as it is. Also no 15% sanction exp bonus for toau since no Besieged yet doesn't help I doubt anyone seriously wants to remove merit camps to encourage camps like greater lolibri, and considering people can already chain 100+ IT mobs, why would you settle for chaining VTs?

I'm aware the crawler and imp/fly camps in the mid 60s to lower 70s was a thing on retail. We're referring to
two completely different higher level crawler/fly camps though. Of which I'm certain also did not exist on retail until some later patch similar to the Misa bird camps.

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Those are Scoriaceous Eruca and Vauxia Fly I'm guessing? Also out of era, yeah. I've been out of the merit loop, but they're also all IT here iirc, so the point still stands re: players fighting higher level mobs, hence taking more damage, but still killing the mobs very quickly. There are lots of bs mob skills here too, but some player ws seem overly good (and others overly bad), so I guess it evens out for now.

Exactly, you gotta figure out what works here on Nasomi and what's optimal. Mainly, if you're gonna fight tough IT mobs you have to push the offensive aspect of your PT in order to get them killed quick. The same groups that are taking a lot of damage from Mis birds also have 3-4 people holding TP on a mob thats sub 25% HP because they think its a waste or something, not realizing that mob TP usage sub 25% is accelerated. I've watched groups get murdered cause people don't understand what makes a mob dangerous.