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 Post subject: Re: OWNM Respawn Timers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:45 pm 
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Posts: 1143
I agree that the autoclaim feature is not a real solution, especially with the weird way ownms even agro now which is to yellow <75% hp. I do think them having a decently large window would be beneficial for both the claim situation at toraimarai and for forcing groups to be more committed to which other ones they want and potentially making the drops more valuable.

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 Post subject: Re: OWNM Respawn Timers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:54 pm 
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Posts: 1465
Zigma wrote:
Starbright wrote:
Zigma wrote:

I am going to be as neutral as possible, if I come across as bias – then call me out please. I agree with you and I’m already privy to the fact that so many people want to post an accusation thread, but do not have the balls to do it – plus we already know who the trolls and instigators are. With that out of the way …

OWNMs are based on BCNMs. If someone is making a proposal to change a specific OWNM, for example, the removal of it -- Then the BCNM for that OWNM should be fixed or added to the loot pool.
If this is a question about, say, Canal OWNM dropping a Kraken club, then the simple, unbiased solution is to fix the BCNM and remove that OWNM altogether. Hell, remove all for them if you can fix the corresponding BCNM. This would also keep it within era?
Adding auto-claim, in my opinion, would not make this any fair or level the playing field. While this is something that truly works for 3 kings, the idea of having an entire linkshell come down puts other smaller groups at a disadvantage due to numbers they do not personally have. In other words, Auto claim OWNMs alienates smaller groups that only do this type of content.
Connectivity, latency etc. is something that unfortunately will never and cannot be fixed. People will ping higher than others; many will ping lower. Splitting connection servers to different parts of the world does not fixed anything in terms of claiming. It does, however, improve gameplay.

The advantage for someone with significantly lower latency is still there and will never truly go away. I personally propose removing OWNMs altogether while at the same time fixing the BCNM loot tables. If that, unfortunately cannot be done, then the next best thing, that keeps it as fair as possible, is to add a 1-3-hour spawn window. But that will have to be for all, not just 1. Auto Claim on OWNM is not a solution. Lastly, why change something now since it has been like this since the beginning of time? It is one thing to make a change based on something that is potentially game breaking (Cure V), but to propose a change because, say, top tier HNM linkshells do not control it camp it as much/anymore or lose claim … well, that just does not sit right by me. My two cents.



Imagine thinking someone doesn't have the balls to post an accusation thread, instead of the lack of desire.

It's not like we're accusing Jesus of lying to us. Christ.

At any rate, why change anything since it has been this way forever? Just leave it all as is, I suppose.... Or, as good ideas are presented, you can take action upon them. The spawn windows is a smart change, but I like the auto-claim feature too so we don't have to make that aforementioned accusation thread that we're all too scared to make.

One group being able to claim the most efficient way to get a KC 100% of the time, without fail, is as game-breaking as the specific circumstances around casting a hate free Cure 5.


I respectfully disagree. A group who is committed to camping an OWNM that drops a nice to have, but not required, super rare item, is not game breaking. Regardless of how successful they are.

A group, being able to hold an HNM forever due to the enmity attributes of a specific spell, that anyone can easily get -- is.

A specific item does not, in anyway, go hand in hand with baseline game mechanics.



SE introduced the claim shield because JP shells would get 99% of claims early on. Saying it's fair because of faster ping is laughable at best.

That's all that is truly needed for OWNMs if you don't want the HNM style spawnclaims.

ETA: If you're the Zigma from BG, you know all this already, you're just being disingenuous.

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 Post subject: Re: OWNM Respawn Timers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:38 pm
Posts: 143
Miku wrote:
nebulacloud wrote:
Just remove the Kclub from tc ownm since we have LoO now


Ironic from someone who now has a club and bought it from an OWNM group


I said this before i got my Kclub, I'm not selling mine so not sure why I would care about its value going up. And no mine didn't come from OWNM :P


also bcnms would cost something and give everyone a chance to do it. Not one group who can outclaim 99% of people.

edit ;; do you really think it's fair that 1 group gets that ownm everyday? If LoO were that way and 1 guy just kept milking it daily, people would be salty.

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Last edited by nebulacloud on Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OWNM Respawn Timers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:57 pm
Posts: 775
Zigma wrote:
Starbright wrote:
Zigma wrote:

I am going to be as neutral as possible, if I come across as bias – then call me out please. I agree with you and I’m already privy to the fact that so many people want to post an accusation thread, but do not have the balls to do it – plus we already know who the trolls and instigators are. With that out of the way …

OWNMs are based on BCNMs. If someone is making a proposal to change a specific OWNM, for example, the removal of it -- Then the BCNM for that OWNM should be fixed or added to the loot pool.
If this is a question about, say, Canal OWNM dropping a Kraken club, then the simple, unbiased solution is to fix the BCNM and remove that OWNM altogether. Hell, remove all for them if you can fix the corresponding BCNM. This would also keep it within era?
Adding auto-claim, in my opinion, would not make this any fair or level the playing field. While this is something that truly works for 3 kings, the idea of having an entire linkshell come down puts other smaller groups at a disadvantage due to numbers they do not personally have. In other words, Auto claim OWNMs alienates smaller groups that only do this type of content.
Connectivity, latency etc. is something that unfortunately will never and cannot be fixed. People will ping higher than others; many will ping lower. Splitting connection servers to different parts of the world does not fixed anything in terms of claiming. It does, however, improve gameplay.

The advantage for someone with significantly lower latency is still there and will never truly go away. I personally propose removing OWNMs altogether while at the same time fixing the BCNM loot tables. If that, unfortunately cannot be done, then the next best thing, that keeps it as fair as possible, is to add a 1-3-hour spawn window. But that will have to be for all, not just 1. Auto Claim on OWNM is not a solution. Lastly, why change something now since it has been like this since the beginning of time? It is one thing to make a change based on something that is potentially game breaking (Cure V), but to propose a change because, say, top tier HNM linkshells do not control it camp it as much/anymore or lose claim … well, that just does not sit right by me. My two cents.



Imagine thinking someone doesn't have the balls to post an accusation thread, instead of the lack of desire.

It's not like we're accusing Jesus of lying to us. Christ.

At any rate, why change anything since it has been this way forever? Just leave it all as is, I suppose.... Or, as good ideas are presented, you can take action upon them. The spawn windows is a smart change, but I like the auto-claim feature too so we don't have to make that aforementioned accusation thread that we're all too scared to make.

One group being able to claim the most efficient way to get a KC 100% of the time, without fail, is as game-breaking as the specific circumstances around casting a hate free Cure 5.


I respectfully disagree. A group who is committed to camping an OWNM that drops a nice to have, but not required, super rare item, is not game breaking. Regardless of how successful they are.

A group, being able to hold an HNM forever due to the enmity attributes of a specific spell, that anyone can easily get -- is.

A specific item does not, in anyway, go hand in hand with baseline game mechanics.


That nice to have item is literally the only way to kill the only piece of content left for most of the server, besides one LS who I don't think would consider that content anymore really.

You can't hold most HNMs forever, no matter the enmity concerns, and wyrms weren't really being held that often with it.. because you otherwise have to not be retarded to hold a wyrm for a long time, even if you have cure 5's.

Either way, that's kinda overlooking the point. Hopefully Nas sees this and has a solution he finds agreeable.

The spawn conditions of a mob are baseline game mechanics though.

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 Post subject: Re: OWNM Respawn Timers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:39 am
Posts: 446
Zigma wrote:
Camper wrote:
Zigma wrote:

Biased text


Yeah man, you are too biased for this topic.


Damn. No meme. Guess I’m not worthy of it yet.


Image

There.

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 Post subject: Re: OWNM Respawn Timers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:40 am
Posts: 177
Camper wrote:
Zigma wrote:
Camper wrote:

Yeah man, you are too biased for this topic.


Damn. No meme. Guess I’m not worthy of it yet.


Image

There.



Hahahaha -thank you. That was great.

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 Post subject: Re: OWNM Respawn Timers
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:16 am 
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 6:01 pm
Posts: 798
Autoclaim pop on the OWNMs makes so much sense that it makes nas look bad for not implementing it. I asked him in one of his streams if he was going to implement autoclaim on OWNMs. He said that was in the works. Go back and watch it if you want. Later, after he messed with the OWNMs and changed how they aggro, I asked him again in-stream if he was going to make the OWNMs autoclaim. He said no, complaining directly in stream that his players were shifting over what they wanted. He seems to think that turning on autoclaim is somehow a risk to stable game play. Like, noobs are somehow going to magically stick around at an OWNM camp crowd at the right time and somehow beat everyone else trying to get claim. Or maybe keeping an aggressive OWNM around (which is technically required for autoclaim to work) is not something that he wants because of zone crashing. Apparently, that is still happening.

But. yeah. This topic is a bruise on nasomi no matter how you look at it. No reason not to do it, especially if the OWNMs still have one reliable form of aggressiveness.

edit: I also think it would be nice to introduce some variability in the repop. As it stands now at 12:00:00, that is what enables linkshells to train through them routinely. Introducing even a thirty-minute variability in the repop would fundamentally change OWNM strategy, making a train of OWNMs simply impossible. The real reason why linkshells are able to do trains routinely is because a party can enter a zone, fight, and leave before people take notice. This allows ToDs to be kept secret from other shells. If an OWNM party needs to camp for a duration, their presence is more likely to be noticed and their ToD will be more likely to be observed so that competition can show up for the next pop.

edit2: also, where the fuck did OWNM trample go?


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 Post subject: Re: OWNM Respawn Timers
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:39 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:12 am
Posts: 16
As someone who spent a good 4-5 months in the canal, auto claim would definitely level the playing field


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 Post subject: Re: OWNM Respawn Timers
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:29 am
Posts: 72
These suggestions are great and everything...but lets be real for a minute.

Nas is not changing shit.

Carry on :D

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 Post subject: Re: OWNM Respawn Timers
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:12 pm
Posts: 753
He definitely watching and he definitely dislikes botters on his server, even if he doesn't have the willpower to make the adjustment himself, the dialogue is open, and idea is going to grow.

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